shadowrom

~40 dps loss between 0.4.4 and 0.4.7, only difference is in the old one i have 1% of expertise and in the new one 1.13%, so i assume it comes from here ?

 

Paxer

Just a little bump to this post since the bug still seems to be in the new version of the sheet.

 

madman

Wound Poison seems to be preferable on both weapons for combat specs now. It was quite close to Deadly before, but now the margin is quite significant.

 

KingZer0

Can you give me some arguments why this combination is the best for combat specs atm?
Is it because of the 10% buff for slice and dice or are there other reasons?

 

Dontmindme

On the mongoose proc rate issue, I seem to recall a lot of testing during BC where it seemed the proc rate on both Mongoose and Executioner were demonstrated to be higher than one. 1.2 seemed to be the established "best" number at the time given the data, which represented a proc per 50 seconds. My belief was that the intent was for the enhancement to proc approximately once a minute and 50 seconds left room for misses and dodges.

 

• Aldriana

Yes, it *was* 1.2 PPM, but there is reason to believe that they may have lowered it from 70 to 80; it would not be the first time they nerfed the proc rate of an old-content enchant to reduce it's viability.

 

MentalPROblem

Could anyone explain how come expertise gems give me such a low dps upgrade now? I just don't understand the wording of the change. Could someone enlighten me? :P

 

Shaithis

With the 4.7 release of the spreadsheet, I find that I can do slightly more DPS (half a percent) than Mutilate with a 18/51/2 combat dagger spec using dual wound poisons and a 4s/4r rotation. Anyone having similar results at their gear level (mine is mediocre at best)?

 

saedo

It does not round (down). If your exp rating gives you 25.6 expertise. You get 25.6 expertise instead of the 25 it shows on the character screen. So each rating gives you a constant amount (til cap), instead of jumps where you need the next whole number.

 

Rhysel

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I want to make sure I'm using the spreadsheet correctly.

While investigating the 'cycles' tab, I came across an interesting bit of math that defied my common sense understanding of dps.

I have the energy to keep a stable cycle of 5E 5R (cttc), but my DPS was off by about 500 in 25 man raids, and according to the spreadsheet, it's better for me to be doing 4E, 1R. While at first I assumed this would result in a net loss, I believe now that value of a combo point in envenom is greater than the value of a combo point in rupture. Is it true that rupture diminishes in value after the first combo point? Am I wasting my time rupturing with 4-5, when I could be spending those points on envenom while rupture ticks at a lower value?

Also, how dependent on your raid makeup is the cycles tab? I'm on a small, ragtag server, and our groups fluctuate greatly. Many times we go in without a shaman, DK or boomkin.

 

Shaithis

Sounds like you have very bad gear. Is your poison DPS higher than white DPS? Envenom increases poison damage for a few seconds and Rupture damage is enhanced by AP.

EDIT: saw your armory and your gear is fine. Mine is worse than yours and I am not seeing the same results, 3.5% DPS loss going from 4/4 to 4/1.

Why not ask the spreadsheet? There is a "buffs" tab that you can toggle.

 

Shaithis

By the way, the Xe (CttC) cycle appears broken in the latest version.

 

MentalPROblem

Have anyone else noticed that increasing expertise gives you VERY minor upgade in dps (compare 16 exp vs 16 ap)?

 

Danzir

I am a little curious, after inputing my data in the latest spreadsheet, to see that Sinister Revenge is a positive of +4dps over webbed death. I thought with the advent of the increaseed SnD haste, dual WB's would be the clear winner. I am not seeing this and I am curious as to why.

Are others seeing this too? (Sinister Revenge showing a dps increase over dual WB's).

WB/SR > WB/WB
(mh = instant poison, oh = deadly poison)

 

Melkortopia

I don't believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the spreadsheet takes into account the extra energy you would need to try that finisher or combo builder again. It doesn't adjust your final DPS value accordingly. If a combo point builder or finisher is dodged at a critical moment (e.g., an eviscerate right as Slice and Dice is about to fall), you lose a bunch of DPS while it's down, and the spreadsheet doesn't calculate that.

 

Caladnei

Same here, with Murder in the mainhand, though (zero WD drops since we've started going Naxx 3 months ago...). 2.2 decrease in DPS when switching SR to WD.

Another question - the Hyperspeed Accelerator enchant buff is now accounted for in the sheet, I find a 22 DPS increase over Crusher in my version. Can this be true? Does Engineering finally start making sense (yes, I've held on to it all the time, hoping...)? Or is there some bug at work here?

 

Rilias

Switching from Exp to AP Gems is a difference of ~1 DPS per gem for me. If I switch as many as 5 out the last is then an increase in DPS again and overall the difference is nonexistant between choices.

The Spreadsheet gives at least some value to the Energyloss due to dodged finisher (at least taking Quick Recovery increases DPS) but of course it does not model SnD dropping due to CttC not procing.

 

Trazhenko

I'm pretty sure the Accelerator always beat crusher, but the question is whether it beats crusher by as much as other profession perks beat their counterparts. For example, the LW bracer enchant shows as a ~35 DPS upgrade for me over the standard 50AP that anyone can get.

That said, if you have a lot of fun with engineering, and switching professions is only going to net you 13 DPS, maybe you don't really need to switch. Personally, I'd be dropping mining first if I was looking to gain more DPS via professions.

 

Caladnei

You're completely right and that is what I plan to do. I'm stocking up on leatherworking supplies right now...
Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Shaithis

SR OH has always shown a dps increase over WD OH.

Increased haste should have no effect on weapon choice, both weapons get the same bonus.

 

• Feist-Mok

If anything, increased haste should favor sinister revenge, as the OH need only be fast enough to maintain deadly poison uptime - with more haste, this becomes plausible with a weapon with a slower base attack speed, and other considerations - such as base weapon DPS and stats - become more important.

Also keep in mind that Vulajin's spreadsheet, by his own admission, has a less sophisticated model of deadly poison stacking than Aldriannas does, and that Aldriannas significantly favors Webbed Death in the offhand (i.e. take Sinister Revenge coming out at +4 DPS with a grain of salt in this case)

 

• Aldriana

It's worth noting, however, that "fast enough" doesn't really exist. Even with Webbed Death, you occasionally don't have full stacks for envenoms - with SR, it's actually quite common to be short. In point of fact, poison restacking is one of the major reasons fast/fast leads fast/slow right now - if DP didn't require restacking, fast/slow would be relatively more viable.

 

Helscythe

Had a question about Sinners bindings in the spreadsheet. I thought they were the best bracers in the game if you have optimal gear. For some reason they are never better for me then the thrusting bands. No matter what gear set-up or buff set-up i run with. I was under the impression that somehow the sinners binding out classed the thrusting bands if you had heroic presence along with the best gear. Forgive me if it has been asked before.

 

Asuah

It depends on what level of Expertise you are sporting, and more relevant, whether or not you're Combat. Using [Thrusting Bands] with [Valorous Bonescythe Helmet] and [Chestguard of the Recluse] as combat puts you well over the Expertise cap. As assassination you don't have the 10 expertise that Weapon Expertise gives and the statpoints aren't wasted.

 

Minka

So Patch 3.0.9 was a little PvE DPS buff for COmbat Mutilate but HaT aswell. The question I ask me is, is HaT still doing better in raids with a good grp (2 Hunter, Enhancer, Fury warri or Mut rogue, and you) ot is Mutilate now better?

How much dps gained Mutilate from the Patch 3.0.9? And will it be enough to beat HaT DPS