The Roguecraft Spreadsheet - Page 52

Alexsiss · 02/17/09, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by MentalPROblem

Have anyone else noticed that increasing expertise gives you VERY minor upgade in dps (compare 16 exp vs 16 ap)?

Somewhere in the last 3 versions Expertise got changed to be non truncated in the sheet. this now leads to small upgrades over every rating of exp gained rather than a huge gain every time you would break a whole number. Pretty sure this is why you are noticing your difference.

MentalPROblem · 02/17/09, 11:40 AM

deleting

FromTheAshes · 02/17/09, 1:19 PM

Err:502 is displayed across all the dps boxes at the top of the spreadsheet, this was after i just recently downloaded it again, before i even started changing values. Im using open office to view and edit it. Im clueless as to what the problem could be, or if i was even the cause of it. Any help would be appreciated.

todemax · 02/17/09, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by FromTheAshes

Err:502 is displayed across all the dps boxes at the top of the spreadsheet, this was after i just recently downloaded it again, before i even started changing values. Im using open office to view and edit it. Im clueless as to what the problem could be, or if i was even the cause of it. Any help would be appreciated.

A suggested fix for this was posted 2 pages back. If you are using OO2.x, update to the newest version.

Lokkun · 02/17/09, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

I'd be hesitant to draw any conclusions from 611 attacks. Assuming it's 1 PPM, your data is 3 standard deviations from the mean - unlikely, certainly, but not so unlikely as to rule out a statistical fluke.

In the early days of the expansion, I recall testing the proc rate using my Webbed Death, which, at the time, had Mongoose on it. And I recall concluding that the PPM was probably around 1. Regrettably, I have mislaid the original parameters of the test, so I can't swear as to the details, but that's my recollection. And, in point of fact, my best guess at the parameters of the test puts the proc rate even lower than 1 PPM - I'm getting .8 or so, though I make no claims that I haven't misremembered the details of the test. So I'd suggest that we perform slightly more systematic and lengthy testing - 5 or 10 thousand attacks at least - before jumping to any conclusions.

Wow Web Stats

I used a [Librarian's Paper Cutter] with mongoose enchanted. Test was main hand weapon only (One time I had accidentally two LPCs equipped, but the main hand was broken, so I guess there were no double procs during that maybe 10 seconds). The test took 17871 seconds and I performed 14911 attacks during this time. It shows that mongoose proced 292 times. 239 were buff-gains and 53 were buff-refreshes. I hope that helps to solve the mongoose proc rate issue.

I would do some math, but I am terrible at this. Simply from looking at the two major numbers "17871 and 292", the proc rate may be 1 every 61.2 seconds (roughly 1 PPM). But there were 53 buff-refreshes and I am not sure if that change the calculation in any way.

Full list of proced mongoose:

18:49'45.156	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:53'21.625	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:53'41.844	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:54'54.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:56'18.375	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:58'02.484	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:58'50.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
18:59'33.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
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19:04'06.000	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:04'25.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:04'32.344	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:08'32.344	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:09'09.266	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:09'34.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:10'07.906	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:10'27.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
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19:11'41.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:11'58.250	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:12'28.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:14'01.937	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:15'12.969	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:16'33.531	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:17'11.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:17'34.891	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:18'05.875	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:18'55.906	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:19'04.125	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:19'59.250	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:20'03.062	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:20'58.266	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:21'12.453	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:21'34.187	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:21'43.859	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:23'46.750	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:24'48.937	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:25'13.156	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:25'18.000	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:25'24.031	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:25'35.984	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:27'53.797	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:28'29.797	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:29'53.984	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:30'07.266	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:34'06.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:35'32.625	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:36'04.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:36'14.219	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:37'42.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:39'32.281	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:42'21.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:42'36.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:42'51.234	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:45'13.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:46'01.656	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:48'03.359	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:48'26.281	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:49'12.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:49'18.062	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:50'47.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:52'16.422	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:52'48.797	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:53'45.234	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:54'03.156	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:54'32.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:55'50.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:55'51.609	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:55'52.875	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
19:57'32.969	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
19:57'34.281	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:00'13.484	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:01'12.531	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:02'40.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:06'02.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:06'31.203	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:06'55.234	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:07'34.875	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:09'00.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:10'13.578	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:10'38.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:14'02.641	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:14'43.156	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:15'13.328	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:15'49.250	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:16'13.344	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:19'25.500	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:19'58.016	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:20'36.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:23'54.578	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:24'05.250	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:24'47.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:25'48.609	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:27'06.516	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:27'56.797	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:30'05.750	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:30'28.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:32'40.031	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:34'03.047	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:37'13.422	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:38'30.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:40'12.266	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:44'21.141	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:45'16.266	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:46'13.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:48'33.484	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:50'21.016	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:50'31.969	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:50'36.828	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:51'00.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:51'10.906	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:51'29.812	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:51'36.781	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:53'06.891	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:53'23.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:53'38.891	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:54'43.641	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:54'52.016	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
20:55'07.391	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:56'14.578	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
20:58'29.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:00'15.672	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:02'09.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:02'49.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:05'35.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:07'33.328	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:08'14.672	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:09'56.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:12'23.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:12'51.781	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:15'51.328	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:16'00.781	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:17'35.844	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:18'46.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:20'02.203	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:21'01.141	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:21'45.719	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:23'05.875	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:25'08.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:25'35.953	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:26'27.422	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:27'25.969	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:28'10.141	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:28'18.312	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:29'49.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:29'59.281	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:30'04.016	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:30'37.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:31'30.703	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:32'00.375	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
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21:33'59.172	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:35'24.656	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:36'23.422	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:36'31.766	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:38'01.875	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:38'08.922	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:39'20.750	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:39'43.187	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:45'40.844	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:45'53.734	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:46'05.500	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:47'07.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:47'30.578	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:50'38.281	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
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21:52'31.953	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:52'45.031	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
21:53'48.297	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:54'16.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:54'34.359	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:55'25.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:56'09.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:58'48.234	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:59'41.750	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
21:59'46.375	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:01'34.219	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:01'46.969	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:02'02.375	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:03'18.609	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:03'53.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:05'09.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:05'15.000	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:05'33.594	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:05'53.719	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:05'54.828	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:07'23.844	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:08'07.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:09'13.187	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:10'10.812	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:11'00.906	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:13'41.734	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
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22:15'20.312	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:16'51.141	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:18'16.047	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:19'03.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:19'56.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:23'43.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:24'05.781	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:24'49.609	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:26'35.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:27'45.562	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:28'20.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:28'40.766	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:28'43.187	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:29'15.187	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:29'35.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:30'20.172	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:30'21.469	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:31'06.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:31'19.406	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:31'52.703	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:32'11.406	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:34'50.937	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:35'31.469	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:36'46.203	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:36'54.250	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:37'44.344	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:38'39.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:40'57.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:42'07.375	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:42'34.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:43'48.562	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:46'01.141	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:47'13.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:47'18.187	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:47'38.016	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:48'15.719	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:51'58.125	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:53'46.547	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:53'56.891	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:55'40.687	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:57'07.031	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:58'45.484	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:59'16.187	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
22:59'20.641	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:59'28.969	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:59'32.594	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
22:59'50.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:01'07.828	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:02'33.344	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:03'32.891	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:04'34.641	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:05'12.266	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:05'59.531	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:08'31.219	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:10'02.891	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:11'10.562	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:11'47.078	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:12'14.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:12'54.531	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:12'59.469	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:16'16.328	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:19'04.000	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:19'14.500	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:19'51.172	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:21'22.000	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:23'30.344	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:24'00.922	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:25'23.906	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:25'58.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:26'40.656	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:27'12.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:27'27.625	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:27'32.266	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:28'34.109	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:29'44.031	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:30'49.500	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:31'30.844	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:33'46.828	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:34'36.453	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:36'44.859	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:36'55.422	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:37'18.969	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:38'28.984	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:39'42.500	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:40'32.094	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:40'35.516	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:42'05.250	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:43'12.734	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:43'15.047	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:43'20.891	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:44'06.953	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:44'20.937	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:44'22.125	Teleri's Lightning Speed is refreshed.
23:44'40.953	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:46'09.062	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:46'55.437	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.
23:49'13.125	Teleri gains Lightning Speed.

Adian · 02/17/09, 3:39 PM

This may have been reported...but the Physical Damage buff (from combat rogues or arms warriors) is not fuctioning properly. No change in dps when activated or deactivated.

Tinwhisker · 02/17/09, 3:43 PM

Originally Posted by Adian

This may have been reported...but the Physical Damage buff (from combat rogues or arms warriors) is not fuctioning properly. No change in dps when activated or deactivated.

Are you refering to turning it on/off in the Buffs sheet or in the Talents sheet? Or both?

If you are talented for it, it doesn't matter if you turn it off in the Buffs section, the sheet knows you have it. (I think.)

wtrhzrd · 02/17/09, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

Are you refering to turning it on/off in the Buffs sheet or in the Talents sheet? Or both?

If you are talented for it, it doesn't matter if you turn it off in the Buffs section, the sheet knows you have it. (I think.)

Actually, I can't get it to change the total DPS either way:

Savage Combat = False, there's no dps change by toggling True/False in the Talents and Settings.
Savage Combat = True, same result, no dps change either way.

jest788 · 02/17/09, 5:02 PM

I just grabbed the 0.4.7 spreadsheet and filled it out all. I am currently combat swords with a Fail Main Hand as CG, Sr, WD, etc has yet to drop for me in the months I have been doing Naxx.

Seems that the new rotation for me would be 3s/5r/4e Seems a little odd but I don't worry to much as I will try to see how it does.

My question here is this:

Usually the top Glyphs for Combat are SS, SnD and Rupture glyphs. But according to the spreadsheet, the AR and BF glyphs beats out the SnD and SS glyphs.

Edit: I just tested with No Glyphs then added the SnD Glyph and the DPS did not change? Also, no Glyphs and then add SS Glyph, still no change in DPS. Does this seem right?

Adian · 02/17/09, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

Are you refering to turning it on/off in the Buffs sheet or in the Talents sheet? Or both?

If you are talented for it, it doesn't matter if you turn it off in the Buffs section, the sheet knows you have it. (I think.)

Looks like you got it exactly (that is if you are talented it doesn't care what that box says). Thanks!

Tinwhisker · 02/17/09, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by wtrhzrd

Actually, I can't get it to change the total DPS either way:

Savage Combat = False, there's no dps change by toggling True/False in the Talents and Settings.
Savage Combat = True, same result, no dps change either way.

Just tested on my own sheet and a fresh download to be sure.

Setting Savage Combat 2/2 in the Talents tab and it's on regardless of the state of the "Physical Combat" debuff. I receive both the AP and physical damage buff.

Setting Savage Combat 0/2 in the Talents tab and the "Physical Combat" debuff can be turned on or off to receive only the physical damage debuff.

It appears to be working properly.

wtrhzrd · 02/17/09, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

Just tested on my own sheet and a fresh download to be sure.

Setting Savage Combat 2/2 in the Talents tab and it's on regardless of the state of the "Physical Combat" debuff. I receive both the AP and physical damage buff.

Setting Savage Combat 0/2 in the Talents tab and the "Physical Combat" debuff can be turned on or off to receive only the physical damage debuff.

It appears to be working properly.

Agreed. I misread the part about "If you are talented for it, it doesn't matter if you turn it off in the Buffs section, the sheet knows you have it."... and I have points in it as well.

Edit: Guess I should pay more attention to the version history too, :P
"Added some logic to automatically activate the Master Poisoner or Savage Combat debuffs if those talents are taken."

Stihgnob · 02/17/09, 11:17 PM

i have looked through this thread and did to find anything concerning this.

when i have 213 expertise it shows im at 6.5%, however when i go and make the change in game it shows i have 6.25%.
when i go to the dps tab 213 expertise rating shows at 25.98 expertise. there must be a calculation error showing >26 expertise as 6.5%. i read thought the changes and i think the recent change to expertise on the spread sheet is affecting this.

while i dont believe is this is affecting dps calculation seeing the 6.5% when the rating is below cap is deceiving, anyone know how this can be fixed?

i apologize if this is a repeat post, but i could not find anything to answer my question.

• Aldriana · 02/17/09, 11:30 PM

Expertise, despite what the character sheet in game says, does not truncate to whole-number values. Hence, when you have 213 expertise, you really have 6.49whatever dodge reduction, which, when rounded to 2 decimal places, displays as 6.50 in the spreadsheet.

cougarhawk · 02/18/09, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by jest788

Usually the top Glyphs for Combat are SS, SnD and Rupture glyphs. But according to the spreadsheet, the AR and BF glyphs beats out the SnD and SS glyphs.

Edit: I just tested with No Glyphs then added the SnD Glyph and the DPS did not change? Also, no Glyphs and then add SS Glyph, still no change in DPS. Does this seem right?

Depending on your rotation, it's possible that your SnD uptime stays at 100% whether glyphed or unglyphed which would lead to it having no effect on your DPS according to the spreadsheet. The only way the SS glyph has no effect is if you don't have SS set as your combo point builder on the Talents & Settings sheet, I just tried adding and removing the SS glyph and it's working fine for me on the 0.4.7 sheet.

songster · 02/18/09, 3:42 AM

Make sure your combo point builder is set to be SS! Obviously if you've left it set to Mutilate or Shiv, the glyph of SS will do nothing.

Indz · 02/18/09, 4:56 AM

I have a question about the Crit Modifiers in the DPS Sheet.

In the formula for the Crit Modifier is the talent Murder included.

In Cells B21, C12 etc...

(1+0.02*tmurder*OR(btype="Humanoid",btype="Beast",btype="Dragonkin",btype="Giant"))

Then in Cell B51 is this calculation again on the total DPS.

So, why is Murder included in the crit modifier?
I would say that so crit are double effected by Murder.

• Aldriana · 02/18/09, 5:28 AM

Yes, Murder is in the crit calculations. And, last time it was tested, that reflects the observed in-game mechanics. It may have changed, I suppose, so it might be worth retesting if no one has done so recently; but that is the way it has historically worked.

Simalo · 02/18/09, 6:20 AM

I noticed something when plugging in the hyperspeed accelerators in the cooldowns section. When you change 'False' to 'True' for line 25, subsequent cooldown, you see a massive dps drop, while keeping it at 'False' and adding a time for a second usage does not alter the dps at all.

Ratak - US KT · 02/18/09, 9:07 AM

Just thought I'd shate this finding (which I originally posted on the guild web-site) when looking at fast weapons for the MH with 7/51/13:

Wow - this latest change with 3.09 is pretty interesting ... and it turns out that grabbing [Widow's Fury] (on a guess/whim more or less) in last nights run was about the best thing I could do - even better than [Angry Dread] or [Kel'Thuzad's Reach].

Just to illustrate the point in real numbers - fully 25-man raid buffed moving [Widow's Fury] to the MH over [Crimson Cranium Crusher], speccing Sword Specification and moving the MH from Deadly Poison to Wound Poison adds 206 DPS! [Kel'Thuzad's Reach] and switching to CQC only adds 205 (Ok more-or-less the same and slightly better for FoK) and [Silent Crusader] only adds 182 DPS. Nice decision on my part then.

Even unbuffed it is only 15 DPS behind [Kel'Thuzad's Reach] in the MH (when talents have been adjusted to be optimal for both) - less than 1% - and is basically equivalent with [Silent Crusader] ...

... It also means that Blizzard have got to the point where you can wield fast & slow weapons in the MH and not care which you use (which is nice from a drop/ weapon gear-up viewpoint). Maybe this won't last longer term, but it's a nice easy way to get Rg up-to-speed while waiting for other weapon options to drop (meaning I'll grab a slow MH weapon while I wait for 3.1 just in case but for now I'll MH the Widow). And in one sense using fast light agile weapons on a Rogue to devastating effect has some logic.

So now I'll have to invest in a nice enchant for the Widow! And hope for the Web to drop off KT now. For Flay keeping KT's Reach with Webbed Death makes sense (only gain would be from CG like Rg in the MH), but for Rezland then there is now the additional option of snagging Hailstorm, KT's Reach, Widow's Fury, Split Greathammer or The Hand of Nerub for the MH and have them all be pretty equivalent which is much better odds than before - and so is a nice situation to be in - the more options that is.

Rg, my new Rogue reroll on Thunderlord (NA), is pretty poorly geared as he just made 80, but it seems a rewrite of the standard advice and tables is now neccessary WRT Combat Weapon advice - not new news to those that have been following the discussion in some depth, but this really spells out the change (all calculations done by 0(1).4.7 so thanks Vulajin).

Dontmindme · 02/18/09, 10:16 AM

I did a little preliminary Mongoose testing...

Conditions - Test 1
LPC in offhand, standing sideways to the Heroic target dummies. Shiv's in order to eliminate Haste effects as they are theoretically normalized to 1.7 speed.

52 procs in 969 hits gives a 5.366% proc rate vs. a theoretical proc rate of 2.833% assuming 1.7 normalization and 1 PPM.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/xrzmyk...WCombatLog.txt
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nglzq1mzdi4/WoWCombatLog (2).txt

Conditions - Test 2
LPC in mainhand, Heroic target dummy, auto attacks only, no offhand. Haste: 411 haste rating

98 procs in 3187 hits gives 3.075% proc rate vs. a theoretical proc rate of 1.925% assuming haste proc rate depreciation and 1 PPM. Note: I am neglecting the proc rate reduction of the proc itself, so should be theoretically slightly lower.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/gjmz2n...e411-Exp97.txt

Lokkun - in order for that data to be usable, we need to know what haste rating you had equipped at the time, since PPM mechanics are generally haste normalized.

I'm seeing Mongoose proccing far more than expected in both tests. More than the 1.2 or 1.33 proc rates discussed during BC. I think this clearly warrants more testing.

Rosethorn · 02/18/09, 10:33 AM

In all the testing I have done, I am not seeing Shiv come out ahead of Mutilate specs, and I am also not seeing dual IP/Eviscerate beating DP/Envenom.

My Wishlist Gear + PvE Mutilate spec reads out at 5397 DPS, which I am unable to beat with any other spec or gearing I have tried.

So my question is: Why all this talk about combat shiv spec?

I attached my sheet so you can see how I got the mutilate damage I am talking about. If you can beat that with any other spec or gear I would be very interested to see how.

EDIT: I appreciate that I am using a 73 point talent spec but that is because I have 2 points in deadly brew for no apparent reason.

Lokkun · 02/18/09, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

Lokkun - in order for that data to be usable, we need to know what haste rating you had equipped at the time, since PPM mechanics are generally haste normalized.

My haste rating was at 318 during the test (current armory gear + one LPC, no offhand weapon).

Leto · 02/18/09, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Rosethorn

In all the testing I have done, I am not seeing Shiv come out ahead of Mutilate specs, and I am also not seeing dual IP/Eviscerate beating DP/Envenom.

Keep in mind that a dual IP/evisc setup needs two fast weapons to work. If you switch Sinister Revenge to Webbed Death, switch points out of fleet footed and ttt into imp evisc, then the dps jumps up about 100 over WD/SR with IP/DP.

cougarhawk · 02/18/09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Rosethorn

I attached my sheet so you can see how I got the mutilate damage I am talking about. If you can beat that with any other spec or gear I would be very interested to see how.

I don't think the primary bone of contention with the Shiv build is that it would beat mutilate, more so that it currently beats usual combat SS builds, and will scale better with gear causing further itemization problems because it's unintended.

*** The Analysis below is not valid because you can't Envenom with Wound Poison :S ***
*** I've left it to preserve continuity but it can safely be deleted if deemed necessary ***

Mind you, as an exercise I did manage to get your sheet into a Shiv configuration that actually *just* beats the mutilate one you posted. Being new to the forums I can't see the option to attach the file for you at the moment so I'll simply explain the changes I made (if I figure it out I'll edit the post to attach the sheet):

Build: 18/51/2 Shiv
CP Builder: Shiv
Envenom: Yes
Rotation: 4s/5r/5e
Glyphs: Rupture, Blade Flurry, Slice and Dice

Weapons: Webbed Death MH with Wound Poison + Hailstorm OH with Instant Poison

I also "downgraded" your [Chestguard of the Recluse] in favor of [Valorous Bonescythe Breastplate] gemmed with 2 x [Bright Cardinal Ruby] in order to get you under the expertise cap. The spreadsheet calculates the following:

White DPS	2390.77	44.15%
Shiv DPS	617.69	11.41%
Rupture DPS	298.62	5.51%
Envenom DPS	183.79	3.39%
Poison DPS	1826.10	33.72%
Other DPS	0.00	0.00%
Total DPS	5415.33	
Saved DPS	5396.85	0.34%

And with the Wound Poison you're even proc'ing savage combat

Further showing the scaling problems going on with the emergence of these Shiv builds. With my gear I could only get to within 2% of mutilate on non-murderable mobs. Of course with Murder, mutilate would pull ahead again but I think this illustrates the point well. The problem will likely also get compounded as your gear improves.