PTR Notes 3.0.8 * Mutilate: this ability will no longer give poisons on the off-hand weapon two chances to be triggered.

I know that previous sheets did not account for the extra proc chance but I'm at work and can't hack the current sheet. Maybe this has already been touched on but does anyone know what kind of DPS decrease we're looking at here for Mutilate builds?

My own quick napkin math shows about a 140 DPS loss at my gear level but I'm sure I've forgotten some things in my calculations.

Easier is to change the places of MH and OH and their respective poisons in existing sheets, putting the faster dagger and IP to MH, DP to OH. That was the recommended setup before the doubleproc-OH-poison bug was widely known. My setup (check armory if interested) gives 50dps loss with Roguecraft LK 0.4.3.

On which sheet can one add (non-agility) elixirs and higher level scrolls? I cannot find a hidden sheet for these values like I did for gear, and I would like to swap out some consumables to see DPS loss of going to cheaper elixirs for pugging.

Thank you.

B1 through B8 on the DPS sheet has all the buffs in it, just edit the one you're interested in down to the cheaper level.

There was a rotation i recently tried on raz in naxx10. We didn't have any warriors (and very little melee), so I decided to try and provide the expose armor debuff for myself and the Enhance Shammie. I utilized something like (4+)r(4+)a(4+)e rupture/expose/envenom juggling the finishers as needed due to different timings. It seemed to work pretty well. I was able to keep up my rupture and my expose armor fairly consistently. The biggest hurdle was when I had a 5 point expose armor up and had to energy pool the last few seconds because I only had a 4 point expose armor to take its place, in some cases mandating one more mutilate as I energy capped before expose armor was done, which gave me a 5 point expose anyway, but didn't seem to hurt the overall cycle.

But the question is: Did the expose armor actually provide me additional dps that a second envenom would not have? Can this rotation be modelled in the spreadsheet? I think there is something similar modelled for Combat cycles but not for Mutilate.

My spec is a little different from normal Mutilate, in that I took two points out of CQC and put them in improves S&D. My S&D lasts 34 seconds - glyphed as well (HfB lasts ~30, Expose Armor lasts 30, rupture lasts 16), so it seems to work well. I had noticed in some cases I was able to envenom multiple times before refreshing HfB, which lead me to try the expose armor idea.

On a side note I macro'd together (/castsequence reset=target/5) envenom and HfB, but don't always use the HfB if there is still plenty of time remaining. But the fact that the button changes serves as a reminder to check HfB, on trash it works very well, I usually just use a (4+)envenom/hfb rotation (which is modelled - ty!), I know its not optimal but with constantly changing targets and running around it works well without letting S&D or HfB drop.

Apologies for the wall of Text, but the idea requires a fair amount of explanation and supporting data about my spec.

Edit: Stupid mistake: changed "envenom multiple times before refreshing rupture" to "envenom multiple times before refreshing HfB"

I strongly suspect this was suboptimal. Armor reduction is so important as a raidwide debuff that using a full 5 point Expose should take priority over everything else.

Don't know if the sheet was updated to account for this, but on PTR this is now actually a 1 minute CD and 10s duration, so a 1/6th uptime. I did some quick math on it last week and if you just averaged out the haste benefit, it more or less boils down to around ~40-50 EP better than Crusher. So the Engineering perk still wouldn't be in line with the +64 AP professions (Alchemy, Enchanting, LW, and Blacksmithing), but it's at least something, and add in the goggles for PvP and Engineering becomes a decent choice overall for rogues.

I think it would still be useful to see the Xe/Ya/Zr rotation modeled, if only for those situations where the only option for getting it is a mutilate rogue. I'm sure that there are more than a few rogues who are in this situation often enough that they would like to be able to make gear decisions based on this cycle, and to see just how much it really hurts to go 4+ instead of 5.

Personally, I think shiv for the last point is the right call here, but I only have some experience with this cycle (usually I either have a combat rogue or a warrior along for the ride who can take care of it). It is certainly a sustainable cycle given certain concessions in how you talent/glyph though, so I think it would be one of the most useful cycles to add if more CttC cycles are ever incorporated into the sheet. (Alongside Xe/Yr/Zr and Xe/Ye/Zr - although I'm sure that at least one, if not both of these is inferior to Xe/Yr, it would be useful to see how inferior.)

Shiv for the last point is the wrong choice. Recall that now they're fixing the double proc from offhand poisons, you'll have DP on the offhand, meaning that Shiv is a single OH attack with no bonus damage (other than maybe incrementing DP stack). That means Shiv costs more than half the energy of a Mutilate and does less than half the damage of a Mutilate. It will always be more DPE to do an extra Mutilate and waste the extra combo point(s).

Shiv is always the wrong choice in PVE.

I have some doubts about the spreadsheet that i'd like to be clarified :

So, i actually am running a standard PVE mutilate using in main hand a [Webbed Death] and in offhand a crafted Titansteel Shanker [Titansteel Shanker]
and last night a Twilight Mist dropped [Twilight Mist] , i took it thinking of PvP since it is a slow dagger of the PVP kind

Uploading my armor and my weapons on the spreadsheet ( last version ) , although, seems like that it is a better offhand than my precedent one even for PVE DPS... it seems like to better even of the Omen of Ruin [Omen of Ruin] which i thought to be one of the best around.

Didn't have the chance to test it against Sinister Revenge, but that isn't available in offhand spot ( but this probably has already been noticed ).

So, what's the idea behind a slow kind dagger being better of fast ones on offhand?