I ran two sets of 10 minutes each without & with vigor, and had 139 & 137 SSes respectively. Not exactly sure where that difference comes from, and why both are above the expected value of 135.5, but Vigor'd spam would have ~150 SSes if there was increased energy regen with it.

So, sorry for the false alarm everyone (and thanks for pointing me towards a more decent test )

I've run the numbers of my gear through the current spreadsheet, and Mutilate went from 1% or so in front, to 5% behind.

Unless you are against Humanoids, it appears that Mutilate (as modelled) is at a significant disadvantage.

Is this due to the lack of a Mutilate glyph? Or did Combat just get buffed pretty hard?

[e] The second thing I've noticed is that ruthlessness for Mutilate is basically worthless. 3 points for 2dps. I'm a touch surprised about this, but I suppose if Mutilate has an excess of CP's - then that makes sense. Some confirmation would help.

Updated my results using my low level T6 gear at level 70:

Combat SS: 2757 (Blade of infamy/S2) (IP/DP)
Combat Shiv: 2788 (DP/IP)
Mutilate: 2833 (4e/4r Cttc)(Badge MH/S2)(DP/IP) - With murderable mob
Mutilate: 2667 (4e/4r Cttc)(Badge MH/S2)(DP/IP) - Without murderable mob

Glyphs: S&D and SS - The only dps ones we will have available at level 70.

For me, mutilate edges ahead when the mob is subject to murder but combat is better when its not.
What is still annoying is that shiving still appears to beat SS but maybe at different gear levels this is reversed.

At my gear level (mid-T6) this is reversed. I don't know the exact inflection point, but I'm glad you mentioned it, because I'd assumed that the recent combat changes had reversed it across the board.

Well, with the increased energy regeneration I imagine it'll be quite hard to not cap energy using shiv. It was already quite challenging with only 10%, and now we're at 25%.

Theoretically it may be fine, but in reality it may pose a serious problem. I'm going to try it sometimes how exactly it feels now.

I've noticed a bug in the sheet.
If you set combat duration to anything higher than 500 (or somewhere in that ballpark), your White DPS decreases into bottomless (down to 263 for a 2000 second duration) and your Sinister Strike DPS to some extent as well, but not as much.
Rupture and Poison remain ungchanged.

This pretty much explains the discrepancies I've noticed in my previous posting, as I had the combat duration set to 680 for these data.
At least for white DPS, my predicted Sinister Strike damage is now even higher than before.

Also I've noticed that you haven't included the crit change based on level differences yet, are you sure the crit rate remains unchanged when fighting mobs of different level than yours or didn't you just find the time to do so yet?


I've changed the formula a bit to reflect the selection of "Boss" for target level:
-((IF(blevel="BOSS",clevel+3,blevel)-clevel)*0.2%) (or whatever the exact format in English is, using the German version here)
For cells B17 - K17 in the DPS sheet.

---

So here is the comparision between actual damage measured in ~36 minutes and the sheet. This time, with 0 as duration (instead of >500) and with the current WotLK build (9014):

	Actual			Sheet			Difference
Melee:	51.12%	982.02		46.53%	960.99		4.59%	21.03
Sinister Strike:	26.36%	506.44		25.92%	535.27		0.45%	-28.83
Rupture:	2.66%	51.17		3.84%	79.22		-1.17%	-28.05
Deadly Poison VII:	8.02%	154.05		9.61%	198.38		-1.59%	-44.33
Instant Poison VII:	5.43%	104.39		6.87%	141.86		-1.43%	-37.47
Eviscerate:	3.85%	74.02		4.34%	89.61		-0.49%	-15.59
Killing Spree:	2.54%	48.83		2.90%	59.92		-0.36%	-11.09
Total:		1920.92			2065.25			-144.33

Also, for my current gear and this mob (level 60, 3780 armor), a 5s5r5e cycle comes ahead in the sheet. At least with using Eviscerate.

Cycle	DPS	Type
5s5r5e:	2065.25	Eviscerate
5s5r5e:	2016.60	Envenom
5s5r:	2017.63

A small thing I noticed, Surefooted on the BC 0.4.1 spreadsheet is lacking the new +10 crit rating (though I admit that I'm not certain that the change is going in at 3.0.1). Surefooted is absent altogether on the LK spreadsheet, though understandably so with the new Icewalker enchant.

I am also seeing increases to dps by using s/r/e rotations for combat SS builds.

I adjusted my rotation to 4s/5r/5e and improved my combat SS dps by 20. Using shiv, you cannot use evis and improve your dps.

At my gear level (2 pc T6) this still gives:

Mutilate with murder (2833) > Combat Shiv (2788) > Combat SS (2777) > Mutilate without murder (2667)

Whilst Shiv is ahead its by a very narror margin and one use of AR would like kill all its benifit through energy wastage.

Something I noticed is that the new dwarf racial isn't implemented (5 expertise with maces). Is this on the schedule soon?

By mid-SW gear levels I'm observing a dps DECREASE in a SS build by using an Xs/Yr/Ze rotation compared to an Xs/Yr rotation. I wonder if this transition has something to do with 4-pc T6 bonus? Or is it some artifact of AToL usage (which in my case I do equip).

The 0.4.1 BC spreadsheet shows a similar DPS hierarchy in my gear (a mix of Kara, badge, S3 and a reduced selection of buffs).

Mutilate with murder (1508) > Combat Shiv (1481) > Combat SS (1450) > Mutilate without murder (1424)

One advantage of the Shiv build over the SS build is that it uses 9 less points on combat DPS talents (2 Improved Sinister Strike, 5 Aggression, 2 Blade Twisting) which can instead be spent on utility "filler". Hence the Shiv build will be more useful outside of raiding (farming, PvP).

Rupture glyph also has no effect on Xs/Yr/Ze in BC 0.4.1.

I too am still seeing Xs/Yr/Ze shiv builds beating sinister strike builds at 70. I for one wouldn't mind if they leave shiv as optimal at 70, as it is nice to switch combo point building moves as you level up.

I got 15/51/5 coming out ahead with my current gear (see armory) and level 80 in the BC 0.4.1 sheet, using an ATL & 4s/5r cycle (BF glyph over SnD). But if I switched to SoC, 7/51/13 becomes a bit better (~30 dps). I suspect that this is due to the combination of energy queuing with ATL, and the increased percentage of total damage that is done by SS due to recent buffs.

Well when the patch hits the only proper raiding glyphs available will be S&D and SS, so maybe the ones that won't be available should be removed from the BC sheet: Rupture, AR, Hemo, Shiv, BF.

Good point. With Glyph of SS available and Glyph of Shiv unavailable, I'm seeing SS just slightly ahead of Shiv (0.09% ahead) as a combo point builder in PTR. At level 70 we have two major glyphs slots, so the options are SS and SnD glyphs for a SS build, or Evic and SnD glyphs for a Shiv build.

I was playing around with various daggers in a mutilate build, when I noticed that there were no fast MH's.
Unhide MH/OH sheets. Copy Fang of Kalecgos to Fang of Vashj slot.

MH Instant, Oh Deadly.

Brutal Shanker + Fang of Kalecgos : 2886.68
vs
Fang of Kalecgos + Fang of Kalecgos : 2969.29

Fair enough, Fang has better PvE stats. Let's see with KJ dagger.

Crux of Apocalypse + Fang of Kalecgos: 2946.39
I swap Instant to offhand and Deadly to mainhand:
Crux of Apocalypse + Fang of Kalecgos: 2966.14

So even Instant on fast OH didn't bring Crux ahead.
But using Deadly on a slow MH offers "less" stable Deadly application which in turn cuts into Envenom dmg.
So Dual Fang of Kalecgos seems to be the best.
I'm guessing this trend continues in WotLK as well? Making all those 1.8 speed daggers fairly...inferior.

Or am I missing something?

Edit: Okay now I'm really puzzled:
Instant MH, Deadly OH
Fang of Kalecgos + Crux of Apocalypse: 2973.92

Fast MH/Slow OH. Although again, slow oh = bigger chance of smaller Envenoms?

I'm not sure if it's been noted yet but according to the spreadsheet putting mongoose on your MH weap and massacre on your OH will yield a slight increase in dps over having the same enchant on both weapons. 0.48% to be exact (using the default setup in the latest spreadsheet)

What mutilate spec seems to be the spec of choice for level 70 (3.0) currently? I would check myself with the spreadsheet but I cannot use it on this computer.

I am in Badge/T5 equivalent gear and I also see a dps decrease in a SS build using Xs/Xr/Ze rotation compared to Xs/Yr rotation. I also see a huge dps decrease when selecting a Shiv build instead of SS.

When comparing mutilate to combat and badge weapons (fists/daggers - best I could get) I see mutilate behind by 1%.

Combat fists -> 2525 DPS
Mutilate -> 2506 DPS

I also notice a minor 8 DPS increase when switching out the SnD glyph for the BF glyph.

I will be going Mut when 3.0 comes out, not sure yet if i will be 51/5/5 or 47/7/7. My sheet keeps telling me that combat, after last buffs, is better, but, I kinda want to use the badges daggers i got when i got so excited about mutilate. And besides, I want to know for how much the othe rogue on my guild (who will be staying combat swords) beats me.

So, my Mutilate test is there.

I'm seeing some pretty large differences. The sheet tells me 1972.44 DPS, my actual DPS after ~59 minutes constant beating was 2185.5, so a difference of 209 DPS.


Here are the results, again maybe helpful in perfecting the sheet.

	Actual			Sheet			Difference
Melee:	42.83%	934.27		45.04%	888.35		45.92
Mutilate:	22.50%	490.92		22.88%	451.35		39.57
Rupture:	5.79%	126.35		6.06%	119.54		6.81
Deadly Poison VII:	7.71%	168.27		7.55%	149		19.27
Instant Poison VII:	13.75%	299.92		11.75%	231.84		68.08
Envenom:	7.41%	161.74		6.71%	132.36		29.38
Total:		2181.5			1972.44		209.06

Hunger for Blood is already factored into Sheet DPS. I did notice that the DPS display in your header does not factor in HfB for the various DPS sources. Total DPS does however.


The sheet used


//Edit
I just uploaded StasisCl logs for both the Mutilate and Combat test:
Combat
Mutilate

So I'm running into some odd issues with the spreadsheet (using 0.4.1). I am trying to figure out how to regem, as I know the value of hit is changing in relation to all other stats.

So for example, using a 5/51/5 build, sword spec only, with ~284 hit rating, I have a +10hit gem in my Cursed Vision. When I change it to a 5agi/5hit gem, I lose 0.5 dps. But when I change it to a +10 agi gem, I gain 1 dps. That seems really off. (and no, it's not affecting my Meta).

Also for example, I have all 5agi/5hit gems in my Yellow sockets. My hit rating is a 274. (This is on the spreadsheet). If I swap the gem to a 10ap/5crit gem in my Slayer's shoulders, I gain 1.2 dps. But if I change a second gem, say in my chest piece, I go back down 1.3 dps. I am really unsure how 5 hit variance can make that much of a difference. Buffs on are the default settings (so +3 spell hit, 20 agi food, etc.)

If someone has some insight I would be very thankful. Trying to figure out the optimal regem come Oct 14.