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11/13/08, 1:25 AM
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#1
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THE DON
Goblin Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers
Welcome to the Rogue Simple Questions thread. This thread is for all your simple questions which you expect to have simple answers and thus do not require their own thread.
Note that all forum rules still apply: we said simple questions, not stupid questions (which have no place on these forums). You're still expected to make a reasonable effort to find the answer yourself by searching and reading the threads and making use of spreadsheets and any other tools that may be available. If, however, you're fairly confident that your question is not easily answered with available information, but don't think it will generate sufficient discussion to require it's own thread, this is the place to ask.
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11/14/08, 1:48 PM
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#2
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Glass Joe
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Lockpicking In WotLK
Was wondering if anyone knows where to start your Lockpicking after 350 ?
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11/14/08, 2:49 PM
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#3
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Glass Joe
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The simple answer is to hunt out level 70+ humanoids in Northrend and pickpocket Reinforced Junkboxes (skill 350 required).
Last edited by rescoto : 11/14/08 at 3:46 PM.
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11/14/08, 3:00 PM
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#4
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Rogue
Khadgar (EU)
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Also keep a look out for the "old" highend lockboxes and doors etc.
The gate for Kara comes to mind for example 
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11/14/08, 11:48 PM
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#5
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Sakkara
Was wondering if anyone knows where to start your Lockpicking after 350 ?
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You can still gain skill from the ones in Zangarmarsh.
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11/15/08, 10:27 AM
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#6
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by rescoto
The simple answer is to hunt out level 70+ humanoids in Northrend and pickpocket Reinforced Junkboxes (skill 350 required).
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I have also found this to be all that was required, as there are so many humanoids around (and they "drop" lots of boxes when pickpocketed).
Just remember, however, that your top end lockpicking limit is determined by your level. So first things first, you have to level to 71 before you'll ever gain another point in lockpicking.
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11/16/08, 7:23 AM
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#7
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Chief Passenger
Gnome Rogue
Earthen Ring (EU)
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Could we transfer the hit rating tables from this post into the sticky thread? Seems like they'd answer quite a few of the obvious simple questions. Similar tables for expertise caps with/without Weapon Expertise would probably also be helpful.
http://elitistjerks.com/956961-post3931.html
Apologies for not doing it myself, but I don't know how to get the tables to display properly.
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11/16/08, 2:11 PM
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#8
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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THe goal is that that sort of information will go into the TTT article once it's updated.
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11/16/08, 2:55 PM
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#9
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Rogue
Spirestone
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I was wanting to get confirmation that mongoose decays in effect as you level. According to paper doll stats it still gives the correct amount of agi(120), would they have nerfed only the proc rate for it?
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11/16/08, 4:31 PM
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#10
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Chief Passenger
Gnome Rogue
Earthen Ring (EU)
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Envenom tooltip indicates that ranks 2-4 all do the same damage - can anyone confirm whether this is a tooltip error or a really strange design?
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11/16/08, 7:53 PM
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#11
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Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
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Originally Posted by songster
Envenom tooltip indicates that ranks 2-4 all do the same damage - can anyone confirm whether this is a tooltip error or a really strange design?
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Tooltip error. The higher ranks deal increased damage, confirmed via testing in beta (and anecdotally from my live use last night in instances).
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Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.
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11/16/08, 8:33 PM
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#12
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In the rear with the gear!
Worgen Rogue
Auchindoun (EU)
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Less a question, more a suggestion.
As there are currently not so many spreadsheets around, it might be handy to put a list of guidelines up for gearing. I sadly failed at safing the EP lists around in the old mega threads so, if anyone still has them and would post them, i guess this would safe us from quite some questions.
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11/17/08, 6:01 AM
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#13
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Glass Joe
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Armor Penetration.
There seems to be a metric tonne of this on the gear that we're seeing (unfortunately at the expense of hit it seems). My initial view of armor pene is that it is one of the least desirable stats available to rogues, is this still the case post the boss armor buff?
I know that there is never a 'magic answer', but is there a rough estimate of the value of ArP we can get without using a spreadsheet?
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11/17/08, 6:14 AM
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#14
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Pleading the 2nd
Night Elf Rogue
Tarren Mill (EU)
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Originally Posted by Deke
Armor Penetration.
There seems to be a metric tonne of this on the gear that we're seeing (unfortunately at the expense of hit it seems). My initial view of armor pene is that it is one of the least desirable stats available to rogues, is this still the case post the boss armor buff?
I know that there is never a 'magic answer', but is there a rough estimate of the value of ArP we can get without using a spreadsheet?
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It is the least desirable of our offensive stats, bar strength. With poisons doing more damage than ever and Envenom being the main finisher for Assassination, ArP got even less attractive. The recent change has increased it's relative worth somewhat, as 1 point of ArP will now give a greater benefit on higher armour targets, but on the other hand, it's still greatly outscaled by even hit and crit, not to mention agility and AP.
The item budget needed for ArP is very low though, only double the armour value one, so while it's on our gear a lot, it shouldn't prove a replacement of our more useful stats.
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11/17/08, 6:29 AM
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#15
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Glass Joe
opperwive
Blood Elf Hunter
No WoW Account (EU)
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could you give some info on about how much armor pen rating is equivalent to 1agi? i know it scales so it wont be a solid number but i reckon its somewhere between 3-4?
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11/17/08, 8:29 AM
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#16
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Banned
Blood Elf Rogue
Emerald Dream
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Does anyone know how much offhand weapon speed factors into DPS? Shadowpanther lists a 1.8 speed dagger as being the best offhand, yet I find this hard to believe given vulajin's post where he speculates that each .1 speed faster = 10 DPS. Specifically, I am comparing blade of savagery to corroded saronite woundbringer. According to the think tank topic on rogue dps, if you have combat potency you should add 10 dps for every .1 faster, and with combat swords spec add 5 dps for every .1 speed faster. Since blade of savagery is .4 speed faster than corroded saronite woundbringer, that adds up to 60 weapon dps. Then there's the stats to consider, which I have no clue how to factor in with weapon dps. I need some sort of point system that includes weapon dps and stats to compare gear, the pve dps thread in the thinktank section is old, and is only for armor not weapons.
Last edited by Darktangent : 11/17/08 at 9:35 AM.
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11/17/08, 10:47 AM
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#17
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Banned
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Question: Totally naked and untalented, equipping a fist weapon increases critical strike by 5%. Why, and is it a bug that is expected to be corrected soon?
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11/17/08, 12:34 PM
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#18
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abuses ellipses...
Skyl
Goblin Shaman
No WoW Account
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Question: Is Subtlety now a dagger/backstab tree rather than a Hemo tree? No, I don't plan on raiding Subtlety, just curious.
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Inadvertently a cold-blooded water-breathing vertebrate with a mood disorder.
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Whenever I dislike my job, I think of you.
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11/17/08, 12:43 PM
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#19
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by s4dfish
Question: Is Subtlety now a dagger/backstab tree rather than a Hemo tree? No, I don't plan on raiding Subtlety, just curious.
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From a raiding sub standpoint, it's a 'Spam Eviscerate and who cares what kind of weapons you use' tree.
If you do need to dump energy, backstab is probably better at that than hemo fully talented though.
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11/17/08, 1:36 PM
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#20
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Darktangent
Does anyone know how much offhand weapon speed factors into DPS? Shadowpanther lists a 1.8 speed dagger as being the best offhand, yet I find this hard to believe given vulajin's post where he speculates that each .1 speed faster = 10 DPS. Specifically, I am comparing blade of savagery to corroded saronite woundbringer. According to the think tank topic on rogue dps, if you have combat potency you should add 10 dps for every .1 faster, and with combat swords spec add 5 dps for every .1 speed faster. Since blade of savagery is .4 speed faster than corroded saronite woundbringer, that adds up to 60 weapon dps. Then there's the stats to consider, which I have no clue how to factor in with weapon dps. I need some sort of point system that includes weapon dps and stats to compare gear, the pve dps thread in the thinktank section is old, and is only for armor not weapons.
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Shadowpanther is still sorting stuff out, and his dagger charts are screwy since he has two of them, and one is still using the old mutilate formula. Other gear he has listed is still questionable in priority since my spreadsheet showed dps loss when equipping one of his "upgrades". His site is still pretty good for gear planning but try spreadsheeting first before making quest reward choices. There are a few where the reward is a fist, sword, or dagger, and the choice is a bit rough unless you know exactly how you're going to spec through 80. His quandary is the difference of specs and the viability of both, combat sword/dagger needs a different oh dagger than a mut build, but one sheet of weapons can't illustrate that, so he's probably going to have to make separate sheets for different specs.
Make no mistake, Blizz wants you to use 1.8 daggers, there are more of them than any other in wotlk.
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11/17/08, 2:36 PM
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#21
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Per koaschten's suggestion, here are rough EP values for starting level 80 raiding:
For Mutilate:
| Stat | EP |
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| Str | 1.1 | | Agi | 2.0 | | Crit | 1.6 | | Exp | 1.9 | | Haste | 1.4 | | ArPen | 1.0 |
Hit is worth about 2.2 below the yellow hit cap, 1.8 below the poison hit cap, and 1.3 above both caps.
For Combat:
| Stat | EP |
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| Str | 1.1 | | Agi | 2.0 | | Crit | 1.5 | | Exp | 1.6 | | Haste | 1.4 | | ArPen | 1.2 |
Hit is about 1.8 below the yellow hit cap, 1.6 below the poison hit cap, and 1.4 thereafter.
Note that these values are *extremely* rough, and I make no guarantees that they won't change after we start putting together better models of what's going on. But as something to get you started, this is probably better than nothing.
Edit: Made a slight correction to Mutilate numbers; 1.6 is probably a better valuation for crit than 1.7.
Last edited by Aldriana : 11/17/08 at 8:00 PM.
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11/17/08, 2:53 PM
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#22
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Von Kaiser
Human Rogue
Laughing Skull
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
Per koaschten's suggestion, here are rough EP values for starting level 80 raiding:
For Mutilate:
| Stat | EP |
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| Str | 1.1 | | Agi | 2.0 | | Crit | 1.7 | | Exp | 1.9 | | Haste | 1.4 | | ArPen | 1.0 |
Hit is worth about 2.2 below the yellow hit cap, 1.8 below the poison hit cap, and 1.3 above both caps.
For Combat:
| Stat | EP |
|---|
| Str | 1.1 | | Agi | 2.0 | | Crit | 1.5 | | Exp | 1.6 | | Haste | 1.4 | | ArPen | 1.2 |
Hit is about 1.8 below the yellow hit cap, 1.6 below the poison hit cap, and 1.4 thereafter.
Note that these values are *extremely* rough, and I make no guarantees that they won't change after we start putting together better models of what's going on. But as something to get you started, this is probably better than nothing.
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are you including dodge in those numbers as well(from the agility scale) or are those from a pure dps standpoint?
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11/17/08, 2:56 PM
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#23
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AUGH CHAMPION TIME
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I've made a basic Tricks of the Trade macro that I've found fairly useful:
#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cast [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
Casts Tricks on your target if it's friendly (i.e. you pick a person), and if not - that is, you have a mob or nothing targetted, it checks if you have a friendly focus target, otherwise casts on target of target. General idea is, top priority is you picking someone (say an offtank before a pull), then setting a friendly focus target for it (another rogue), and for just using it, it goes on the tank of the mob you're hitting.
If anyone has recommendations for how it could be made more useful, I'm very open to suggestions, as I'm a fairly novice macro maker. 
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Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.
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11/17/08, 5:19 PM
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#24
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Glass Joe
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Was wondering how long it is taking people to kill mobs in WotLK. I am level 75 running 4/5 brutal gear and guardian and kill a mob every 17 seconds with my sub spec. Is this far enough below par that I should respec?
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11/17/08, 5:59 PM
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#25
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Shatosen
Was wondering how long it is taking people to kill mobs in WotLK. I am level 75 running 4/5 brutal gear and guardian and kill a mob every 17 seconds with my sub spec. Is this far enough below par that I should respec?
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73, Mut spec with a bit different for leveling's sake, mostly T6 and badge gear, mobs die in about 3-8 seconds for me. Sub has never been good for leveling, especially solo. 17 seconds seems painfully long, like prot pally long, unless I'm misinterpreting your post.
Last edited by Rambaral : 11/17/08 at 6:04 PM.
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