Kukulcan

Ye ... good that i just enchanted berzer on the SR ^^. I guess DP on faster weapon because now it wouldn't count if IP would apply faster , because of the fixed amount of times it can proc in a minute right ?

 

wykedtron

I have a pally in my guild that claims his damge is going up 200-400 per swing with this enchant. Has anyone tested this?

 

keke.

heya
so with the poison changes in 3.1, is dual LPC still "viable"? (gonna hit 80 soon)
or better stick with my quest daggers until Dagger of Betrayal//Fleshshaper (got 2 lpc's already at my bank//and no dropluck)
is there a general dps loose to pre3.1 dual lpc's? or just a slow-dagger buff?

any clarification?
thanks in advance :x

 

Iscis

At the risk of sounding like an ass (it's not intentional), I do wish people would just read the thread...

In 3.1, the general concensus of the people who have been testing on the PTR, theorycrafting and simulating is...

For Mutilate specs:
SLOW MAINHAND with INSTANT POISON
FAST OFFHAND with DEADLY POISON

Now, to the reasoning:
The slow mainhand is because of the new ppm system for IP and WP. Because a theoretical 2.8 speed dagger will have a theoretical 100% chance to proc the poison (that's proc, not necessarily have it hit), white attacks will have the same number of poison ppm as from a 1.4 speed dagger. However, yellow attacks still adhere to the same ppm rules, so these attacks with a 2.8 speed dagger will ALWAYS proc the poison. This results in a higher dps from poisons.

The fast offhand is for two reasons. A) Deadly poison was not affected by the ppm changes, so a faster weapon will still get your stacks built back up more quickly after an Envenom, and B) Focused Attacks will proc more often due to the more frequent white attacks with a fast offhand. It should be noted that the difference between a fast and a slow offhand is minimal at the moment, but some have theorized that as gear improves to Ulduar BiS (if not well before), the faster offhand will pull ahead considerably.

An additional note re: Deadly Poison + Envenom (IDN) vs Instant Poison + Eviscerate (IIV) is that with the buff to DP (8% of AP is now 12%), IDN should now be pulling ahead of IIV. This is not, to my knowledge, completely determined yet, and we will likely see people trying IIV on live, especially as gear improves and the calculations are refined.

 

keke.

That was crucial.
Thanks for your Post and thus helping me out.

I may be a bit more careful next time.

kex2

 

majjuz

What about combat now in 3.1

I am fist specced with CG MH and WD OH, would it be better to use SR as OH now since IP is ppm now?

 

Murr

You should be using Wound MH Deadly OH, so no. You still generate a lot more Combat Potency procs with a fast offhand, and since you don't ever generate instant attacks with your offhand the PPM change doesn't help at all. You're slightly less speed dependent than before in the offhand but it's still a huge factor.

The only case that would be a better choice (SR in offhand) is because its white dps is considerably higher than your fast offhand alternatives (WD) in this case, but I don't think the DPS boost in the offhand (which you don't get the full benefit of since it's the OH..) would come near to offsetting increased Deadly Poison uptime (since Deadly isn't affected by PPM) and increased Combat Potency procs. If we find out somehow that Deadly isn't really ideal in the offhand despite the T8 2pc bonus and other data out there then maybe.

This does increase the value of slower weapons in the MH for combat, making those 2.5 speed Naxx swords even worse than they already were. Now a 2.6 (or 2.7 in the case of the Masticator from Ulduar-10 hardmode) speed mainhand both hits harder on instant attacks AND has a better poison proc rate on instants due to the PPM system.

 

majjuz

Allright.

But why is Wound still better than IP after the ppm implent? IP has higher damage and since there is no difference in %procc chance anymore.

 

Murr

Just because it's PPM doesn't mean they proc at the same rate.

Wound has a higher PPM than Instant, so despite doing less damage *per proc*, for most reasonable AP values for Combat it will do more damage overall (since it's damage/ppm ratio is better untalented). This hasn't changed, same logic applies from <3.1 here. For mutilate it's different because they get Improved Poisons which increases the PPM of Instant Poison at which point it becomes better than Wound at much lower AP values, so it's better for Muti.

 

Sais

What is the current PvP spec for rogues? I always liked playing deep subtlety with daggers and huge ambush crits.

 

rickf

I wish I had CG. I've been waiting for it for weeks. I've had a WD forever sitting in the bank waiting on the CG. But I don't have a decent fist weapon.

I do have good swords -- Silent Crusader and Widow's Fury. So what is the sword/sword Combat talent spec for 3.1? Is it simply the swap from CQC to Sword Specialization?

Thank you.

 

majjuz

That is pretty much it, tho swords is pretty bad for the moment. But if you don't have any decent weapons for mutilate (or don't want to) it's the same specc. A bit unfortunate to specc sword now with the new Lightning Reflexes change though.

 

Angrenous

So.... final answer.

Combat. Eviscerate or Envenom. If eviscerate, is imp evis better than ruthlessness?

 

Bliksem

You're using wound and deadly on your weapons if you're combat. This logically reduces the value of envenom, as the buff only increases your chance to apply deadly and instant.

 

rickf

Is it so bad that even ... what is the Culling of Stratholme fist weapon ... Murder ... Greed ... with WD better than the Silent Crusader / Widows Fury weapons?

 

Lieto

There is smth that is bugging me for quite some time so i hope you can shed some light on my question.
Generally speaking i noticed that turn the tables buff has at least 90% uptime during boss fights (chances that someone will block, dodge or parry in 8 seconds are pretty high), Even 100% if there are 2 tanks. Assuming that we take Master Poisoner by default in 51/13/7 wont it be better to go 54/10/7? Basically you trade 3% crit from CQC to 6% crit from TtT.

Thanks for the great guide btw, i hope my questions isnt too silly -)

 

Unseen

TtT only gives you crit for specials, which is why it is worse than CQC.

 

Mavanas

They made some changes to what procs HaT in 3.1. My recent tests showed that they took away HaT proccing from explosive shots as well as all pets (although someone mentioned earlier that pets did not proc HaT since 3.0.8). Either way, until we thoroughly retest what procs HaT in 3.1, recommendations about HaT groups should be taken with care, but it seems like it's no longer survival hunter groups. If you want some indication, even though it's not all restested for 3.1, there is a table I posted in the HaT thread.

 

korereactor

...is the 15/51/5 spec you are talking about the one as listed in the Pocket Guide to WOTLK (link to spec) or this one (from ShadowPanther.net)? I'm Combat with Crimson Steel and Omen of Ruin (WoW Armory).

 

Nannou

Yeah, I saw your updated table before I made my suggestion. I think it would be wise to inform of this for possible sub rogues.

 

zwart

thanks a lot Aldriana! I've been looking through way too many posts for this info.

I have one question though. you say:

Q: Which poisons should I use?
A: MH should be Instant Poison if you're specced into Improved Poisons and Wound Poison otherwise. OH should be Deadly Poison pretty much no matter what.

and this seems reasonable enough but the question whether improved poisons is worth the 5 talent points or not remains. what do you think? is any mutilate build obviously going to take this talent?

 

Nannou

Every mutilate build should take it

 

Fearendil

Thanks a lot for this helpfull summary .

I have a little question (that's not very important , feel free to ignore if it doesn't fit this post).

Is there a consensus about a secondary spec / glyphing which would provide the best dps for thrashs?

 

Nannou

That would most likely be combat with KS and FoK glyphs.

 

OnTheHissay

3.1 stat weightings for combat anyone?