zdstew

Just had a question about Cold Blood. I'm sure it's been asked at least once before in this thread, but i didnt have the time to sift through 50-60 pages of posts. Just curious as to which finisher and/or combo move would benefit the most in terms of dps. I personally have always been saving my CB for a 5 pt, 5 stack DP envenom. Not sure if this is the best way to use this less-than-awesome ability Blizzard has so kindly given the mutilate spec. The reason i ask is mainly due to the possibility of using it for just a mutilate. Only benefit i could see using CB with a Mutilate would be from Seal Fate, giving you 3 combo points, and also due to Focused Attacks getting +4 energy instead of +2 from critting with envenom. Overall, i do realize this ability is on a 3 minute CD and i usually only use it once, maybe twice during a fight. Still curious as to the best use of this ability.

 

Kryptyx

CB is a pretty weak talent in itself, which I'm sure most Rogues will agree with. However I find it best to be used on an Envenom @ 5/5 like you stated. With our T8 4-set bonus though it might be better to use with Rupture.

 

zdstew

Cool, thanks a ton for the input. Never actually thought about using it with T8 4 piece and rupture. constant rupture crits would be pretty wicked. But yeah, overall...i wish Blizzard would either replace CB with something else, or move it in the tree so it isnt a required talent for Seal Fate. But you know what they say, want in one hand, S#!t in the other, which one fills up first?

 

buttah

What is the idea behind using wound / deadly for combat builds? Last night on our Deconstructor attempts I averaged 13% damage from wound and only 8% from DP. The uptime I was having on deadly seemed to be sufficient but it did drop a few times. ( 15 / 51 / 5 build )

 

• Aldriana

Your MH weapon has instant attacks, meaning that it does more damage with Wound Poison than your OH weapon would. So, yes, your MH Wound Poison does more damage than your OH Deadly Poison, but current theorycraft indicates that your OH Deadly Poison still does more damage than OH Wound Poison would.

 

Warbz

I was looking over the updated pocket guide for 3.1 and it suggest for a combat build to use wound mh/deadly oh and goes on in the rotations to suggest using eviscerate. Personally I have been using Envenom, is this a typo or is Evisc in-fact better?

 

animagic

Wound/DP and Evisc is the higher dps spec. There is some showing of an 18/51/2 spec with IP/DP and Envenom, but it falls a bit short of the 15/51/5 build.

 

Sylverfox

as far as i know, there's no evidence that 18/51/2 falls short of 15/51/5.

personally since 3.1 came out i've used 18/51/2 with WP/DP and with the added haste from lightning reflexes and the new poison mechanics i've seen a significant boost in my post patch dps, and i'm on par or most times i have better dps than 15/51/5 or mutilate rogues with more or less equal gear.

until a few more weeks of testing come in, we can't conclusively say 18/51/2 falls short of anything in actual game fights. Theorycrafting has its limits after all.

 

Akeldema

Would you be able to Link an example of a 18/51/2 spec, im not 100% sure how it should look.

 

• Aldriana

The evidence that 18/51/2 falls short isn't particularly strong, but nor is the evidence that it's ahead. And the fact that the theorycrafted difference is minimal means that you're not going to be able to tell the difference in-game - it's well below the noise of RNG between attempts. What we can say is that it's pretty close - perhaps a bit behind, perhaps a bit ahead, but of order a couple tenths of a percent either way - in BIS T7 gear. However, current theorycraft indicates it may not scale quite as well, so by BIS T8 I expect 15/51/5 to have a noticeable edge.

 

AnimeCwboy

I was wondering why it appears right now that [Grim Toll] is rated higher than [Pyrite Infuser] for combat? Assuming you don't exceed the poison hit cap and that the internal CD is 45 secs for both, the ArPen EP values (by my math at least) has the proc at ~1119.96 EP, so the why is [Pyrite Infuser] considered the lesser trinket?

 

Averya

Not sure if I'm asking this in the right thread but doesn't really fit into any other either.

Was wondering if anyone tested if the Hunger for Blood glyph actually works? When I'm using it and hoover over my buffs it still says 15%, shoudn't it be 18%? Or am I completly retarded and missed something obvious.

Thanks

 

• Aldriana

The Grim Toll proc is a bit stronger than you'd expect from the EP value of ArPen, as ArPen has increasing returns. Also, the uptime on the Grim Toll proc is expected to be a bit higher, as it procs 15% of the time on all attacks versus 10% of the time on crits - hence, once it come off cooldown, it takes about 1/3 as much time to proc.

So, the proc is a bit stronger, and happens a bit more, and in practice Grim Toll thus tends to come out slightly ahead.

 

Amerilina

GC talked about a cap on Arp would stacking [Grim Toll] + the new trinket Mjolnir Runestone actually be a dps lose do to this cap? Given the trinkets actually stack and do not refresh each other proc.

 

jorysaywut

There was no mention of HfB glyph not working on the PTR. It might just be a tooltip error.

Who does that new trinket drop from?

Edit: forgot a word

 

Banja

Disregard, aswered my own question by opening my eyes.

 

Jankage

Dropped for us on Thorim10 (Hard).

 

donkeyface

just got Golem-Shard Sticker. Should I MH Golem-Shard Sticker and OH webbed death or MH sinister revenge and OH golem-shard sticker. i would be expertise capped and hit capped either way by moving some gear around

 

sarufang

Regarding 15/51/5 combat and WP/DP, just trying to understand why WP>IP on mainhand, clearly i'm missing something just trying to find out what.

 

saedo

The PPM on WP is still greater than IP

 

pies

I'm having some teething problem with combat now that I've swapped from muti. It'll probably come out in the wash when I get a better feel for it but I was wondering about pooling energy. Should I be pooling slightly between SS or just before finishers? Is there a break-even point for energy to maintain a stable cycle (SS glyph excepted)? I mean should I aim to hover around 50 energy most of the time? I'm also concerned about how often I'm capping energy through potency procs, should this not worry me overly?

 

Skylo

What are the best classes to party up with a HAT spec? I mean who generates most cp/sec?

Firemages? Hunter? Enh-Shamies?

 

Painkiler

Just got Daschal's Bite. Now I'm going Combat CQC with CG and WD, What would I do? Go combat CQC with DB and WD or respec to mut with WD and DB?

 

Murr

Stay combat with CG/WD or go Mutilate with DB/WD, combat daggers is not viable.

 

Lightshadow

Unless you need to be able to do something like kick, there's no reason to pool energy between sinister strikes -- if anything it's better to keep your energy bar empty so that a couple of back to back procs don't cause you to cap out. (Sounds like that might be one of your issues). You really don't ever want to cap your energy out if you can help it (though sometimes during adrenaline rush it's unavoidable, especially if hero is also up).

Typically pooling happens right before finishers. In particular, people often pool before using slice and dice (assuming the old one is still active) and if your old rupture has a few seconds left it's best to let it tick off if you can before re-applying (assuming it won't cap out your energy). I can't think of a reason to pool before eviscerate, though I guess if you're feeling really slick you can pool a bit and hope for procs.

I don't think I understand your question about the break-even point for energy -- what matters isn't how much you have at any given time, it's how much you're getting back via things like combat potency and how many free combo points you're getting from the imp SS glyph. In general, optimal dps in wrath doesn't have nearly as stable a cycle as it did in BC -- I mean, you can do something simple like 2s/5r, but it's not going to do as much damage as a more complex cycle that sometimes breaks down. (And figuring out when you're behind and just need to restart it is a learned skill). That being said, an optimal cycle is never going to be stable if you're often capping out energy.

One sort of related side note: most of the spreadsheets kicking around model adrenaline rush by just assuming that your average energy regeneration rate goes up a bit rather than as a burst of extra energy all at once. For most things that's fine (and doing it the other way would be really difficult), but if you're messing with them trying to figure out what kind of cycle your gear allows you to use, turn the talent for adrenaline rush off first because you won't actually have as much energy as the spreadsheet thinks.