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Old 02/04/09, 11:15 AM   #1621
nordveien
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
I guess 'cause I'm torn and confused

As you have already sensed, I'm fairly new to learning the insides of rogue mechanics. I dinged 80 and went searching for answers on how to improve my spec and gear. And took some of the advices without realizing they are applicable for rading only. Now I see that I need to respec to fit my current needs, such as 5-mans and questing, and leave the raiding spec for future. Thank you for helping open my eyes a bit more

As for Sinister Strike, I got that it will be the only valid combo builder for Combat spec with Fist Weapon MH/Dagger OH (which is not my case yet). And now... I feel like I can't afford always getting to a position behind the target to use Backstab - more often you need just strike as quickly as possible. And besides that, Backstab costs more energy, so I figured it's not viable in long term... Well, maybe I'm wrong about that too.

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Old 02/04/09, 11:31 AM   #1622
RTM
Von Kaiser
 
RTM's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Terenas
Originally Posted by nordveien View Post
I guess 'cause I'm torn and confused

As you have already sensed, I'm fairly new to learning the insides of rogue mechanics. I dinged 80 and went searching for answers on how to improve my spec and gear. And took some of the advices without realizing they are applicable for rading only. Now I see that I need to respec to fit my current needs, such as 5-mans and questing, and leave the raiding spec for future. Thank you for helping open my eyes a bit more

As for Sinister Strike, I got that it will be the only valid combo builder for Combat spec with Fist Weapon MH/Dagger OH (which is not my case yet). And now... I feel like I can't afford always getting to a position behind the target to use Backstab - more often you need just strike as quickly as possible. And besides that, Backstab costs more energy, so I figured it's not viable in long term... Well, maybe I'm wrong about that too.
Check out this thread, it gives some good advice in the first post about rogue basics. Aimed at raiding but there are some good guidelines for all rogues in there. As you surmised, Backstab isn't the greatest skill these days for a variety of reasons but using Sinister Strike with a mainhand dagger is also pretty bad. I'm not sure if it's listed in the above link the exact reason why daggers & Sinister Strike don't get along, but weapon speed, damage range, and the AP coefficient applied to daggers combine in a perfect storm of Suck.

Grab yourself a nice (mainhand; i.e. not [Pride]) fist weapon and you'll be all set.

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Old 02/04/09, 6:47 PM   #1623
Visciv
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
With Ulduar being on the far horizon, I'm trying to make sure I'm set in every way possible for it. Now obviously this question is with NO expected changes in mind.

Q: Does Combat surpass Mutilate once you have aquired Calamity/Webbed Death? My use of Vulajin's spreadsheet with my current gear indicates no, but there is data on the *shudder* wow forums which indicates that combat is acquiring higher top end damage on many fights. Is this due to more players opting towards combat? Better players opting towards combat because of its ease during complicated fights? Or is Calamities Grasp actually pushing combat over the top and I'm just itemized too heavily for Mutilate?

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02/04/09, 6:59 PM   #1624
Neto-
Bald Bull
 
Neto-'s Avatar
 
wut
Gnome Warlock
 
No WoW Account
If the "data" you speak of is WWS reports, these most likely inflate Combat DPS through AOE with Blade Flurry or extremely short fight durations and thus increased cooldown uptime. Trusting the spreadsheet is probably your best bet in this case.

Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty

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Old 02/04/09, 8:30 PM   #1625
IVIemnarch
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Greymane
hit rating and other stats

2 questions. I am trying to figure out what the sweet spot is for hit rating currently, and I am wondering what stat to stack after I hit that sweet spot, I can get 624 hit rating I am sitting at 581. Here is my armory, and I am not changing to mutilate so dont bother saying it.

The World of Warcraft Armory

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Old 02/04/09, 8:45 PM   #1626
Ashere
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by IVIemnarch View Post
2 questions. I am trying to figure out what the sweet spot is for hit rating currently, and I am wondering what stat to stack after I hit that sweet spot, I can get 624 hit rating I am sitting at 581. Here is my armory, and I am not changing to mutilate so dont bother saying it.

The World of Warcraft Armory
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/ is a long but good place to start reading.
There is no such thing as a must-have amount of +hit, but generally, Combat rogues stop gemming for hit between the specials and the poison cap, and gem for AP or Agi instead, which bring more DPS on the table than +hit does.

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Old 02/04/09, 10:49 PM   #1627
guizas
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Hey there, great community here, long time reader first time poster
I just have a quick doubt and i was wondering if someone could help me. At the moment i have got [Librarian's Paper Cutter] as my off hand and im Combat specced and i have got [Crystal-Infused Tunic] as my chest, and i dont know if i should go get [Heroes' Bonescythe Breastplate] or [Grasscutter] with my badges first. So with the Tunic i have got 369 Hit Rating, if i loose it to the T7 ill have 318 hit rating, and i do have the T7 gloves so i would gain the Bonus to rupture if i would get the T7 chest.
About poisons Elitist says i should be using wound/wound but the spreadsheet says Deadly/wound.
Thanks for the help.

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Old 02/04/09, 11:14 PM   #1628
Squirl
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by guizas View Post
Hey there, great community here, long time reader first time poster
I just have a quick doubt and i was wondering if someone could help me. At the moment i have got [Librarian's Paper Cutter] as my off hand and im Combat specced and i have got [Crystal-Infused Tunic] as my chest, and i dont know if i should go get [Heroes' Bonescythe Breastplate] or [Grasscutter] with my badges first. So with the Tunic i have got 369 Hit Rating, if i loose it to the T7 ill have 318 hit rating, and i do have the T7 gloves so i would gain the Bonus to rupture if i would get the T7 chest.
About poisons Elitist says i should be using wound/wound but the spreadsheet says Deadly/wound.
Thanks for the help.
You say you have a spreadsheet... use it. Take the DPS increase and divide it by badge cost of the items, then take the one with the highest ratio. Also, if you don't have [Mirror of Truth] yet, get that.

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Old 02/05/09, 2:15 AM   #1629
joesausage
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Antonidas
Is there a clear cut opinion of the 4-piece set bonus?

Currently I have the 2-piece via chest and hands. I just picked up [Leggings of Discord] because the spreadsheet said they were a substantial DPS increase over [Gored Hide Legguards], and I needed the expertise. I also picked up [Helm of the Vast Legions] to replace my [Weakness Spectralizers]. So, the only relevant slot I have yet to upgrade is shoulders, which are currently [Trollwoven Spaulders]. It seems like [Heroes' Bonescythe Pauldrons] would be a downgrade in-and-of-themselves, and they won't get me my 4-piece set bonus alone.

So really my question is, based on the gear that I have, would it be worth replacing one of my recent Naxxramas upgrades to get my 4-piece set bonus? Is it really that good? Or should I just go for [Spaulders of Resumed Battle]?

Last edited by joesausage : 02/05/09 at 2:22 AM.

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Old 02/05/09, 2:44 AM   #1630
Palidus41
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by joesausage View Post
Is there a clear cut opinion of the 4-piece set bonus?

Currently I have the 2-piece via chest and hands. I just picked up [Leggings of Discord] because the spreadsheet said they were a substantial DPS increase over [Gored Hide Legguards], and I needed the expertise. I also picked up [Helm of the Vast Legions] to replace my [Weakness Spectralizers]. So, the only relevant slot I have yet to upgrade is shoulders, which are currently [Trollwoven Spaulders]. It seems like [Heroes' Bonescythe Pauldrons] would be a downgrade in-and-of-themselves, and they won't get me my 4-piece set bonus alone.

So really my question is, based on the gear that I have, would it be worth replacing one of my recent Naxxramas upgrades to get my 4-piece set bonus? Is it really that good? Or should I just go for [Spaulders of Resumed Battle]?
It has been found that the 4 piece bonus is worthwhile, but I can't really tell you whether or not swapping those items around will increase your DPS or not. You mentioned using the spreadsheet, I'd recommend that you just plug it in and play around with it, and trust what number comes up as being the best. A generalized answer is rather difficult to give, because changes in your gear will change the relative value of everything else.

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Old 02/05/09, 9:49 AM   #1631
naknekm
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Baelgun
FOK question

I am combat, with Fist/dagger. I do have 2 webbed death's and wonder if I should set up a weapon macro and switch to FOK during those times when I am in a huge group and am spamming FOK.

It gives 150% damage with daggers and it seems like switching to a dagger might increase trash damage.

But, I wonder if there are other things that would mitigate the damage, such as the fact that I am combat and using a dagger in MH or for that matter anything else that might weigh against doing this.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, if so, does anyone have a macro which would do this and then switch back when I push it the second time?

Thank you in advance.

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Old 02/05/09, 10:50 AM   #1632
Scound
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Dethecus (EU)
I strongly advise you to read the "Pocket Guide".

If you do have 2 Webbed Deaths play Mutilate! It is the ultimate Combo for the spec.

If you insist on playing combat, use the slowest Weapon you can find (preferably 2.5+) in your Mainhand - and the fastest in your Offhand. NEVER EVER use a Dagger in your Mainhand!

For FoK it is advisable to use the slowest Weapons available to you in both hands (i.e 1.8 speed Daggers; 2.5 speed Fists - at these speeds the Damage of Daggers and Fists is litterally identical using FoK).
Conclusion: If you want to swap a Weapon, make it your fast Offhand and swap a slow one in!

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Old 02/05/09, 12:41 PM   #1633
naknekm
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Scound View Post
I strongly advise you to read the "Pocket Guide".

If you do have 2 Webbed Deaths play Mutilate! It is the ultimate Combo for the spec.

If you insist on playing combat, use the slowest Weapon you can find (preferably 2.5+) in your Mainhand - and the fastest in your Offhand. NEVER EVER use a Dagger in your Mainhand!

For FoK it is advisable to use the slowest Weapons available to you in both hands (i.e 1.8 speed Daggers; 2.5 speed Fists - at these speeds the Damage of Daggers and Fists is litterally identical using FoK).
Conclusion: If you want to swap a Weapon, make it your fast Offhand and swap a slow one in!
I do insist on playing combat.

Here is what I am trying to figure out:

I have Calamity/WD equipped.

In FOK, daggers do 150% of damage. So, I am wondering if, given the fact that I am combat spec, it would make sense to go to WD/WD in those situations where I am going to spam FOK?

My question is whether there is something in the combat spec that will reduce the amount of damage I do with FOK?

I have outfitter addon and I can switch with the press of a button.

I guess what I am really asking is: will I do more damage on trash pulls like down Spider Wing if I switch to WD/WD for the time I am spamming FOK than if I just stay CG/WD?

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02/05/09, 12:45 PM   #1634
Leto
King Hippo
 
Leito
Troll Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by naknekm View Post
I do insist on playing combat.

Here is what I am trying to figure out:

I have Calamity/WD equipped.

In FOK, daggers do 150% of damage. So, I am wondering if, given the fact that I am combat spec, it would make sense to go to WD/WD in those situations where I am going to spam FOK?

My question is whether there is something in the combat spec that will reduce the amount of damage I do with FOK?

I have outfitter addon and I can switch with the press of a button.

I guess what I am really asking is: will I do more damage on trash pulls like down Spider Wing if I switch to WD/WD for the time I am spamming FOK than if I just stay CG/WD?

Thanks in advance.
Use CG/WD. CG hits over 150% harder than WD, so the buff to dagger dmg doesn't make up the difference.

What you should do if possible though is put a 1.8 dagger in the off hand instead of WD.

Rogue at heart.

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Old 02/05/09, 1:53 PM   #1635
Verre
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Proudmoore
I read one post about FoK with two daggers and just shook my head. But a second one and I have to jump in.

Webbed Death even with a 150% damage increase is like FoK with a 2.1 second 213 ilevel sword. Its not all that great. CG is by far the best MH for FoK spam for a combat rogue, and is only rivaled by a Sinisters Revenge (which in reality does give a minor increase in damage over Calamitys).

Simple math says that Webbed Death is the worst dagger for FoK spam. In fact its close to being the worst 213 ilvl weapon commonly used by a rogue other than Hailstorm and other offhand swords (I'll include Librarians since many newer rogues still use it).

In the end though, pulling out your calculator and doing grade 4 math would have got you these simple answers. At least you put them in the right thread.

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