• Neto-

So, um, why is the poison hit cap listed at the pocket guide 446? Is the poison cap no longer spell hit cap (17%)?

 

Kumar

Thats with 0/5 Precision.

 

• Neto-

Yes, 17% is without Precision, but it lists 446 as without Precision as well, and as far as I know 446 is 13.59% hit.

http://elitistjerks.com/956961-post3931.html

Am I missing something?

 

phalen

hi.

i'v been reading on some sites that Killing Spree is not a viable ability for raiding. some say that it places you in the center of the boss' hit box, making you susceptible to cleave and whatnots, others say that the dmg burst you get is inferior as opposed to putting that one point into instant/vile poisons which would last though the entire fight.

what is your opinion about this?


another question i have is for Tricks of the Trade - it has a very short range, and on a large boss, its not possible to reach the tank unless you run to the tank, but that would place you in front of the boss and we all know how smart that is. so, my question is this, when would you use tricks of the trade? with the pull? if you do use it with the pull, wont it interfere with your stealth? would you use it during the fight, and if needed move closer to the tank and the dangers of being in front of the boss? or would you not use it at all?

thanks for your time and advice - its appreciated

 

• Neto-

Killing Spree is very viable for raiding and is a great ability, but some user discretion is needed. You shouldn't use it when it would put you in danger of dying.

The range on Tricks is not that short. You may very well use it during the fight, but the best time to use it would be before you engage the boss - so you regen the energy spent.

 

gimpynerd

I searched the forums and didn't find any mention of it so I thought I would ask some opinions:

Recently I did a series of tests on a dummy, and found that swapping my 1.3 MH with my 1.8 OH, with IP OH Deadly MH, and shivving when at 3 combo points instead of another mutilate resulted in a net dps gain.

While my tests were nowhere near perfect conditions, and there is no current modeling that I am aware of, I found this to be interesting.

For what it's worth, the rotation was also easier for me to manage and seemed less prone to energy starvation.

Forgive me if this is old/retarded news, I am admittedly new to the Rogue scene and am still learning.

http://wow.tachyonsix.com.nyud.net:8...60719ZfadH.png

 

phalen

thanks for the reply

if i use Tricks before i engage the boss, how would i go about it? i'm assuming (never used it before, so have no idea) that you cant be stealthed when using it. and once the pull starts, you cant stealth since you will be in combat - so the general approach to a boss - ie. stealth, garotte - wont be possible unless you vanish to gain stealth again? but then you loose out on the vanish ability that is needed to wipe your aggro when you go a bit overboard or need to get out of a dying zone :p

 

• Vulajin

Hit rating still converts to spell hit at the 8:1 base ratio, i.e. 446 hit rating = 17% spell hit.

 

Akeldema

I have found Due to the massive Threat tanks can now produce that the threat gaining(Or lack of threat for you) side of things is a bit of a moot point, But it dose allow you to run up and go all out at the beginning of the fight with the +15% (I think) damage boost. I have recently been, Using Tricks, and then using Killing spree right at the start of the fight.

 

Zujamar

You can use Tricks of the Trade while stealthed. You can also trigger the effect while stealthed thanks to Sap (which is not very smart, obviously). Probably the most practical way is to activate it so that you regain the lost energy before you start the fight. With the exceptions of the initial pull, threat wipes or adds spawning, tank threat shouldn't be an issue so it'd be more efficient to use TotT on a dpser to take advantage of the damage boost. Other rogues are usually your best bet since they're pretty much always in range of you, and can Vanish if needed.

 

phalen

thanks guys - appreciate the feedback on Tricks and KS

 

OnTheHissay

Did they change offhand swordspec procs from affecting mainhand to just giving extra offhand attacks?

 

• Feist-Mok

Has any testing been done on the Proc behavior of Berserking yet?

I tossed it on my Webbed Death today, and would be happy to stab a target dummy for a little while if there's something people need combat logs for. Don't have the shards to put it on a second weapon to check for double stacking yet tho.

 

drumbum

Even though hit rating was combined into a single stat, it stills converts to physical hit and spell hit at different ratios. In other words:

~32.79 hit rating = 1% physical hit
~26.23 hit rating = 1% spell hit

Note that Precision adds 1% (per talent point) to both. I got the conversion ratios originally from this post.

 

Yozshurah

Am I missing something? Librarian's Paper Cutter has more dps and is faster than Lightblade Rivener, how could it be better in any way?

I can't get the spreadsheet to work (been trying for ages actually), that's why I'm asking if the dagger is better than grasscutter.

 

MissnL1nK

When speccing a HaT build would it be better to gem for AP than Agil in the long run being most of the dmg is coming from specials? I haven't seen many people posting on HaT lately so I am interested to see if this is true.

 

Hallagenic

Everyone Keeps talking about combat swords hit being exceptable around 220 with 132 expertese. How is this possible unless there was some change mechanic to the way are dps works we still need to gear to cap out white damage and at the current standing we need somewhere around 622?? to cap out that dps with 5/5 in precision. I have looked thru many forums and now im seeing something like not being caped for poisions till 446 or so. My question is as a sword or even just combat speced rogue what is a good number i should look for on my hit. Plz if your going to tell me 222 to cap yellow damage plz show the referance to when blizzard changed rogue damage where yellow damage is to exceed white damage.

Its really something im concerned about when looking at gear. Also can someone explain what they did to expertese to make it so much more valuable considering we still shouldnt be dodge/parried if we are attacking from behind. I cannot find any reliable information on this. Plz Help

*Edit Understanding the new amount of Expertese that is needed to get back up to original caped level 6% is that where the number 132 comes from?

 

MissnL1nK

The issue is that poison dmg is much higher now so your white dmg isn't as important as it used to be. The poison cap is 315 with 5/5 Precision (correct me if I am wrong on this) so this should be the number you aim for.

 

Fjell

The big change to mechanics was the change to WF totem. It's a haste buff now, instead of a bonus attack.

Mobs can still dodge when you attack from behind. Expertise tends to be nice because it affects yellow AND white, whereas hit tends to only affect white once you get past the fairly easy to reach yellow hit cap.

 

◊ chalon

We did some testing in Beta, which suggested Berserking has a PPM between 0.9 and 1.2, though we needed larger sample sizes to narrow down a more precise number. It appears to have no internal cooldown on procs either, since it can refresh itself. The last post on it was here: The Roguecraft Spreadsheet

Proc testing best practices are something along the lines of:
1. Only equip one weapon
2. Remove any items which proc haste effects (eg. DST, Meteorite Whestone)
3. Note the weapon speed and haste rating for the test

Then just leave it auto-attacking on the dummy for a long period of time. You'll probably last maybe 2 hours before your weapon breaks IIRC.

 

Ashere

It's hard to say, since Agi adds to your crit chances, improving the amount of bonus CP's you generate yourself.

On top of that:
Sinister Calling and Deadliness stack. So 100 Agi translates into 115 Agi from SC, adding 115 AP + crits, which translates into 126.5 AP through Deadliness + crits. While 200 AP translates into 220 AP through Deadliness.

Stat weights are definitely different for HaT builds, but it's hard to say what they are exactly, since modeling HaT to figure them out is way too much work (for now). It might be more towards AP by default, but the stacking of Deadliness and Sinister Calling, and your own CP generation through crits seems to even out this offset again.
The only combat stat that I can tell which is definitely of less value to HaT builds would be Haste, since it provides no energy regeneration like it does for Mutilate and Combat builds.

HaT specs are basically uncharted territories, and theorycrafting is staying away from it for now, since it's
a) too hard to model, given all the other things that still need modeling. It's basically at the end of a long wishlist.
b) assumed to not be on par with Combat or Mutilate builds, since the finishers used have no Weapondamage component, while combomoves do. Weapondamage improves more than weapon statbonusses do, so it's basically assumed that standard combomoves will take over from finisher spamming pretty soon.
c) HaT specs rely on the crits in your party. It will take a little while to get the awesome critrates we had in the final days of TBC back, and it's assumed that (b) will have taken place by that time.

 

Hallagenic

Ok yes but that is my point. I mean sure we can cap over yellow and get more expertese wich will help to not be dodge parried.. great but the source of majority rogue damage is white. So why did we suddenly stop thinking we need to gear to help that wich does the most of are dps. I mean you could cap yellow in tbc at what 190 but you didnt stop there. Even if you eqauate that having more expertese allows for lower hit were still going to need enough hit that are whites nearly never miss.

I know for a fact that that is well over 222 so my question is provided around 132 or more expertese.. ie caped.. what hit average should we look to to cap white dps, as i think this will severly cripple are overall dps by not capping just like it would have in tbc. My math puts it at around 622 not taking into account expertese with the new 32.26 hit for 1% rating or close to that. 622 puts you just around 18% not talented and with talented in the ball park of 23% not capped but should be suffiecent to see a dirastict imp on not missing.

This is really what my question comes down to.. not asking for a magic number im just asking for a general amount.

 

• Vulajin

Which is basically the same as asking for a magic number. Stop miring yourself in this type of thinking, it is wrong and bad. Get the gear that is indicated to provide the most DPS by spreadsheets or other tools, and gem for the stats that provide the highest DPS per point. Your resulting stats will be what they will be. If you aim for magic numbers you are always doing it wrong.

 

Dev93L

I really hate asking stupid questions, and I know a lot of Rogues are going to rightfully roll their eyes at this, but I've tried to figure this out for a long time and I cannot.

I specced 5/5 CQC, fist mainhand, dagger offhand.

If I remove the fist and substitute any other weapon type in its place in the mainhand slot, I lose approximately 10% of my crit. It seriously goes from 28-29 down to 19%. I lose nothing when unequipping the offhand.

Is it a tooltip error?

 

Ormack

Are you using a weapon you have maxed your weapon skill on? If not you will have lower crit till you get the skill up.