Conventional wisdom is that the offhand penatly does reduce the damage gained from AP, but not the Mutilate bonus damage (which, despite what the tooltip says, is not variable but a fixed - though fractional - amount); however, DW Spec *does* increase the bonus damage despite the fact that the DW penatly does not reduce it. So my guess is that it just so happened that, with your AP, the extra OH bonus damage matched the loss of AP due to dual wielding, such that your weapons wound up pretty close in damage based mostly on a fluke of your current AP.

Edit: Corrected a significant typo.

That seems to be the case, increasing AP by ~~800 resulted the range to increase from 8 to 34 (687-721).


So for that matter, WoWWiki formula is actually correct, albeit the wording is a bit confusing.

What is the estimated EP value for Expertise Rating beyond the cap for Combat/Mutilate

Beyond the Dodge cap? Practically zero, as it will only decrease the rate that your attacks get Parried, which should rarely happen if you're attacking your targets from behind, which you of course should be at all possible times.

Recount still reports a few melee dodge and parries after 135 for me, I'm just looking for a hard value equate into gear changes and EP calculations, nothing to really supersede.

Unless you're attacking from the front, you'll never get a dodge/parry past 26 exp. Certain boss do have movement involved, so it is possible that you are seeing those dodges/parries when the boss is moving around and rotating its position relevant to you.

Quick question in reference to the to set bonuses. I have 2 valorous terroblade pieces and have broken my 4 piece 7.5 set bonus and put back in dislocating handguard and guise of the midgard serpent in replace. The general idea I've gathered and came to conclusion of is....single target bosses/trash the 7.5 gear with 10% to rupture and 5% decrease of combo moves is better for single target whereas for aoe bosses and aoe trash the tier 8 bonus pulls ahead, I swap out my my SR/WD to SR/SR with instant on the main deadly on off. My spreadsheets being flaky as we were on Ayiana (sp) last night and with the 8 bonus I spiked to 6.2k dps then on a single target I seemed to do worse with the 8 still in on council. My stats are basically the same with both tier sets so thats not really a factor. Tier 8.0 2 set bonus? or 7.5 set bonus? Thanks guys.

currently i use SR mh and twilight mist OH cuase i have not been able to get a fast OH dagger for mut. would i gain more dps by using something like librarians paper cutter or titan steel shanker, then using twilight mist since it is so slow?

second question i have is do i need excel to read spread sheet i use open office but it doesnt seem to work right? im sure a spread sheet would answer my first question.

Aldriana's spreadsheets work fine with open office... for me at least.

hmm alright yes they do. thanks man..ok is there a guide to using it. the last spread sheet i used was at 70 and it was super simplified.

I'd like to confirm something, so I have a question about deadly poison mechanics. Suppose you have accumulated 5 DP stacks and DP damage just ticked and then ran out (either you have not applied DP in 12 seconds or you just used an envenom). Which of the two following scenarios correctly describes DP mechanics of what happens when DP runs out:
1. As soon as you apply 1 stack of DP, it will tick for the damage equivalent to 1 stack and will restart the three second timer till next tick
2. DP will tick again (assuming there are DP stacks up) 3 seconds after the previous tick (which happened back when you had 5 stacks up). DP poison applications before the 3 second period expires will not start a new DP tick timer and will not cause a tick damage.

I would like to check how do undead rogue kick Auriaya Sentinel Blast. We do have will of the forsaken but it on 2 min cd. When the warrior miss the fear, maybe I can kick once. We got a warrior tank who can use berserker rage and pummel her blast. My guild leader like me to assist in kicking but I really got no ideas how.

If it's a problem here's a few things:

• Tremor Totem - shaman better be dropping it in your group
• Killing Spree - You can't be feared in it so pop it when she casts
• PvP trinket, if you really need that much more help
• Fear Wards, though I suppose they're placed on more important people

So up to this point, I've been using my Cold Blood for 5 point envenoms. I'm wondering if using it on a Mutilate after a Ruth proc would be better now because of t8 four set. More specifically, does guaranteeing more rupture uptime combined with a Mutilate crit surpass a 5 point envenom. I'm guessing it would depend on how many ticks of rupture it would add but is complicated by the high chance of success for Mut to crit anyways. I've just found myself in this situation semi-frequently where I'd get a non-crit Mut after a Ruth proc, and having to wait for another mut with rupture not ticking. It was a non-issue before but with rupture doubling in value, I'm curious whether anything's changed.

Overall, it's a minor issue but a question anyways.

I use elkano buff bars to track sunders on a boss. Make a new group for target debuffs and white list sunder armor and expose armor. You now have a bar that will track both expose armor and sunder armor on a boss.

I can't see how it would be worthwhile to use a Cold Blood on your Mutilate, when you have something like a 90%+ chance that your Mutilate will be 3 CP.

I'm not even sure you necessarily get increased Rupture uptime, either. I mean, it's really a case by case basis, but in most cases if you've been on the target for a while, you're probably pooling a few seconds for Rupture refreshes either way. But it's a bit hard to deterministically say either way. But I'd have to think that CBing the Envenom is always a better option.

In regards to a start up rotation for combat i have deviated from the recommended start up slice and dice which ever way you like, s/s to 3 combo points and then slice and dice.

Instead im starting up slice and dice and then s/s to 5 points rupturing and then s/s to 3 points and then slice and dice and then continue on the normal rotation.

As long as i do not let slice and dice drop at any point would it be ok to continue what im curretly doing? Or would this be gimping my dps so to speak.

Also i think it might be a good idea to have something along the lines of a dps comparrison on certain bosses(like they do in other threads) for example maybe a comparrison could be done on ignis, Mainly because i use the spreadsheets provided and my dps is quite alot lower then the theoritical dps achievable and im wondering if its just me that is finding this or if it is also something other rogues are finding.

Just want to get some quick confirmation: Golem Shard Sticker is better in a MH than Anarchy, correct?

Xaragon you're basically starting your cycle midway which isn't a problem as long as you have enough energy to actually pull it off and not let slice drop.

Got a fast question. I´ve recently gone back to rogue as mutilate, and found a thing in the pocket guide I can´t explain. But since you all is here I guess it will be answered fast.

In the pocket guides mutilate spec (51/13/7) you have 3 points in MP, 0 in ttt and 3 in CQC. Now, I checked the gear discussion thread, and someone trying out gear always got higher by having 2MP, 1ttt, 3CQC. Is there a line where this change gear wise then? And further on, say t9, maybe there will be a time when actually 3MP, 3ttt, 0CQC will outperform?

I'm mutilate spec right now, and have been fiddling around with the best way to open on bosses. I've settled into the following sequence, and was wondering if I was making any mistakes that could be costing me DPS. I'm using Mut/HoB/Rupture glyphs.

(HoB is used as soon as it lights up)
Tricks on MT
CB Mutilate
Slice and Dice
If Ruthlessness procced, 1cp Envenom for full duration SnD
Mutilate to 4+ cp
Proceed with usual rotation