Minishadow

Don´t know if mine is better, but works fine for me.

If I can start in stealth (which ofc is best) I start with garrote. If Its to slow to get in position, or been on another target, I run in and shiv.

After that, SND.
Mutilate
Envenom
Mutilate
Mutilate
Rupture
and so on. HFB asap

 

strawberryfm

Since she starts the Sentinel Blast cast directly after the fear you can cheese it by kicking just before you get feared. It's pretty reliable but doesn't have a 100% success rate unfortunately.

 

paramourn

Rotation should be simply:

* Notice how HFB is not in here =) Ideally you want another raid members opening blows a bleed effect so you can pop hfb before breaking stealth...utilizing the most damage per energy point possible during "overkill". If not sqeeze it in RIGHT after SnD or right before.

Tricks
garrote
1x cp SnD
mut X2
Rupture
Mut (providing ruthlessness procced)
Energy pool
Right before it get to 100 Envenom
Mut X2
ready for whatever is about to fall off.

Although the rotation universal rule is wait till the last second, when greatness trinket procs, mirror procs, and both beserking procs..if your energy is at 80 I just assume envenom with the extra kick =) rather than wait and have a wimpy finisher. Plus Im still using dual WD and I can get *usually in a raid setting* anywhere between 1 and 4 envenoms off before a restack needs to happen during my rotations. Try and time these on your high points. Get statblock (it's an addon) and glance down to see what your AP CRIT etc is..If you go on Youtube there is a video I made about the mutilate rotation just search "paramourn mutilate rotation efficiency"...mines not the only one out there either...a lot of good rogues have discussed this.

 

Irsneaky

Last night I was in Ulduar on Deconstructor. I am combat spec with decent gear. I usually run about 4.5-5k dps on bosses. Last night I was working the standard rotation and noticed that my eviscerate was not hitting hard at all. at one time on a 5 point rank 12 eviscerate crit I hit for 582 on the exposed heart. No that is not a typo that is 582. I usually hit for about 7-10k on 5 point eviscerate crits. I was wondering if this is a known issue and If I should change my spec a little to make envenom viable.

Anyone else noticed this?

Anyone know the cause?

 

• Maestroquark

Do you have a parsed log of that fight?

What are you waiting for, a certain shade of green?

 

seth7

what is the best buff food for rogue? +40 agility and stamina, or fish feast - 80 ap and 40 stamina?? Or something else maybe? Thanks

 

• Feist-Mok

Fish Feast or it's single buff Mega Mammoth Meal/Poached Sculpin equivalents without 4t8

Agi/Stam Anglefish with 4T8

 

Irsneaky

no, I am sorry I do not. I do not use many mods at all and just noticed it last night durring our last few minutes or so of raid time.

 

Ticia

Even assuming that you pool your energy so that you hit SnD with 100 Energy AND that Relentless Strikes procs on the 1pt SnD (a 20% chance), this starting rotation is impossible:

0s - 1pt SnD - 100 Energy (After RS Proc)
1s - Mutilate - 45 Energy (Assuming Mutilate Glyph)
2s - Mutilate - 0 Energy
4.5s - Rupture - 25 Energy (After RS Proc)
7.5s - Mutilate - 0 Energy
9s - SnD Falls off - 15 Energy
11s - Envenom - 25 Energy (But no more SnD active so you have to restart it)

If you have the SnD Glyph or 1 point in Imp SnD then it will work (barely and there's very little room for lag or movement), but from what I've seen, most rogues are using HfB, Mutilate, and Rupture glyphs and keeping the 1 point in precision, so that doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

 

• Vulajin

Once and for all: both arms and Kologarn's body have the same hitbox, right in the middle of the platform. If you stand facing the body, you can hit any of the three targets. If you stand in front of the body and face an arm, you will very likely end up at the exact angle to be able to perform special attacks but not auto attacks. Don't do this. Just stand right on top of your Kologarn tank and face the body the whole fight for best success.

Adding keywords to enable others to search this more easily in the future: Kologarn melee auto attack hitting arms body problem issue damage hitbox

 

paramourn

I do it everyday and never have issues.....but I DID forget to mention a few things...

I use arcane torrent and swiftthistle religiously and many times will use that right off the bat, as they are ready again when we usually bloodlust later in fights.
I DO have 1 point in SnD and NO snd glyph.
I will admit with SR it's close but not usually an issue with Arcane Torrent and fully raid buffed.
Your forgetting Focused attacks. It would take 5 crits in 9 seconds to clear the 25 energy for an envenom.
Also forgetting Tier 8 set bonus of "energize" procs...not much but helps the cause as well.
This is with SR in MH..somefights I use 2x WD still, which increases focused attack procs even further.

I use the same glyphs as everyone else with the exception to an "aoe" mutilate dual spec putting fan of knives glyph in and some other slightly modified aoe friendly changes that's neither here nor there, though =)

As far as keeping 1 point in precision....i think most rogues would agree hit at higher gear levels is PLENTIFUL. The dps loss from having rotation fall offs IMHO are much more devastation than 1% more hit when I already have over 380. Not including if i use grim toll. Point taken though...not EVERYONE is a bloodelf with tier 8 set bonus yet either.

In that case I would suggest: hfb, garrote, snd, mut X2, energy pool till snd is about to drop, envenom, mut (RS proc) rupture, would you agree?

 

Rilias

How does one convince someone that hitrating has no effect on the number of whitecrits you perform? (barring the critcap which is not all that important to rogues)
The wowwiki page explaining attack tables for autoattacks and the one-roll system is apparently misunderstandable and quite frankly some of the old information in there seems to do more harm than good.

 

• Vulajin

Tell them to go auto attack a level 80 training dummy 2000 times without hit gear, hit talents, or weapon specs, and observe that their crit rate [roughly] matches their tooltip despite the 24% misses.

 

Mideci

If picking up 2/2 Throwing Spec because, well, it's damn useful in Ulduar and I really don't want to burn a whole spec, what single point of DPS talents would you drop from combat for the least hit to DPS? Assume that I have 1/2 in Endurance (as I do) for the lone utility point. I was thinking it'd be 1 from Lethality or Precision but not sure.

EDITED: I have found the tab in the spreadsheet to mess with this, but still curious what people think.

 

Minoritee

My question concerns the superiority of mace/daggers to swords. I was using the 10 man kt fist weapon and a webbed death as my combat set before. I just recently recieved a remorse and malice. Now obviously these are great weapons and I should go swords. Should I be going for other weapons before I'm 2200 in arenas or get a golden saronite dragon? Is sword spec more reliant on raid buffs because of the lack of crit? I'm not sure what route to go, nor do I know what to think of being sword spec'd.

 

Kryptyx

Here is my "Simple Question"...

Does this seem accurate to you guys?
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Notice that Combat is on top of almost every boss, This differs from my guild's DPS where I am the only Mutilate Rogue and manage to be above everyone else on most fights in Ulduar.

EDIT:
From my knowledge both specs are viable, Combat is better on quick fights while Mutilate is better on longer fights. They were both said to be on-par with eachother with similar ilvl gear and player skill.

 

PsilocinEI

Sooo... The FAQ is now saying combat with BiS T8 is going to be "pretty significantly ahead" of mutilate... what kind of numbers are we talking here? Generally in Ulduar the 2 combat rogues and I are pretty much on par depending on the fight obviously. Luckily it looks like most of the BiS gear is going to be the same for both specs besides weapons and a few others like trinks. I'm wondering if it's really going to be worth it to save DKP and bid against the two combat's for gear. Last thing they want is another person bidding, especially since I've been consistently mut, but I will do whatever I have to to maximize dps...

 

Tinwhisker

Most fights these days have periods where the ability to burst DPS can net some big increases; this may because of the need to move to and from your target or the target may have increased vulnerability for short periods.

Combat has several burst abilities and mutilate has none. Taken over a long fight with none of these periods, yes, the two specs are probably fairly even but when you're talking about guilds who have knocked fight time down considerably and Combat rogues that are pushing these burst abilities to their best use, then it's easy to see how Combat can put up some really big numbers. If mutilate had a DPS cooldown ability to use on these periods then the story would likely be different.

That's not to say mutilate can't put up good numbers, but when fight lengths and strategies favor one over the other you're going to see the favorite win almost all the time. And as time moves on all guilds will move to shorter fight times and capitalizing on "bursty" periods.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Superbaha

What do people think about my rotation, I saw someone post it somewhere once but i couldn't find it again.

When pulling its basically like

Tricks
Hfb, if a bleed goes up before i open, (Otherwise i do it right after the SnD because a bleed usually goes right up after that)
Coldblood, Ambush
SnD
Mutilate
Rupture
Mutilate
Envenom
Mutilate


Repeat basically, I never use mutilate more then once and i envenom soon as i can. Has this type of rotation been tried out already and been proven to be worse then another rotation?

 

paramourn

Both specs are viable but I think combat pulls ahead on the top end. Not to mention it's what the "leet" rogues are raving about now so naturally you'll see quite a bit of enthusiast going back to "their roots" and pumping out debatably higher deeps based on spreadsheets.

Considering your the only muti and IF there are combat rogue's they are most likely less geared/skilled than you, muti will pull ahead naturally. We are a pure dps class and one of Blizz's /happyfaces. We will do massive damage with both spec's. I am in the exact same situation and have consistently been 1k to 1.2k above anyone else in my guild as mutilate, still waiting on weps that haven't dropped to go combat. My suggestion and from your posting is to learn both specs. My heart is in muti as well but due to our energy situation we can switch spec LITERALLY every pull if needed. Learn them both and figure out fights that combat is easily the strong point. Download Aldriana's spreadsheet and keep a close eye on what your dps does in both specs. Use whichever one is higher in specific fights for instance....if your combat spec is really high in expertise use that spec for Kologarn, as your in front of him the whole time. etc etc.

 

• Aldriana

So, since writing that, I had a lengthy conversation with Latito about this and other matters, and I think I'm going to back off the wording on that. There are actually a few more fights than I originally credited when Mutilate competes. I still personally think that combat wins overall, but there's more room for reasonable dissent that I was initially thinking. There are a handful of fights that Mutilate clearly wins, and a somewhat larger set where Combat clearly wins, and for the rest you can make an argument for either. In the end, there probably are a few more Combat fights than Mutilate fights, but both are somewhat viable - and the truly hardcore will find it optimal to maintain gear for both and switch on a fight by fight basis.

 

Kukulcan

So , i've been using the spreadsheets from Aldriana and got as answer "Change to combat spec".. but i am not using combat spec since TBC at least, did rotations for this spec change ?

I always used a 3-4SnD/5 Rupture/5 Evis.. is this still the best rotation for a standard combat spec 15/51/5 ?

EDIT: oh and i guess is still WP on faster weapon offhand and DP on slow mh as poison?

 

jilanea

As combat I was wondering what weapons I should use for fan of knives spaming sessions.

I have Hail storm, Malice and Calamity's grasp and am speced swords obviously using Malice and Hailstorm normally.

Should I be using MH Calamities grasp, offhand Malice to fan of knives or is the energy gain and wrong spec weapon, I lose not worth the increased weapon damage?

Is there a valid test for this so I can check myself?

 

DrRusty

I have a question about the combat spec.

Wouldn't it be better to keep relentless strikes at 4 and add that point to endurance to make Endurance 2? I think I'd rather have 2% more stamina and 30 seconds less cool down on sprint than 4% extra chance to get 25 energy.

 

Tholofonos

Endurance is a filler point. It contributes nothing to our DPS - the only reason we have points in it is to get to higher tiers in the talent tree. Relentless Strikes, on the other hand, is an integral part of our energy flow, because it makes our 5 point ruptures "free", with diminished effects on our other finishers.

If you really want to snip a point from somewhere for 2/2 Endurance, Lethality is probably your best bet. I would advise against it. The increase from 2% bonus stam to 4% would only give me an extra 20 stam, which is barely any health when your total health pool is upwards of 20k raid buffed.