Are you weapon skill capped for the weapon type in question?

EDIT: Beaten

It was slightly, but now that's remedied. Even at the worst it was 15 points or so under from 365, which was my max. Awful small margin to be 10% crit, isn't it?

I can't check my armory at the moment or I would.

Based off of what I've seen of stats displayed on the character sheet I would say this is a tooltip error. All damage and crit % are based off of your MH (unless you hover over weapon damage, then you see your OH Damage).

Since hovering over the crit % only shows your crit rating converted into % there is no diffierntation between MH and OH for this. I suspect that once you no longer have a fist/dagger in the MH, the tooltip fails to recognize the 5% crit of your OH dagger even though it's there with that weapon.

Hope this helps.

It does, and I appreciate the observation. I did some dummy testing and did not find my crit decreased by 10%, but closer to 5% as well.

Just very unnerving to see a 10% crit drop from unequipping that fist.

I am trying to figure out a best possible Mace MH/Sword OH build. Shadow panther has the build created as Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft7/51/13, with five (5) points in both Mace spec. and Sword spec. and three (3) points in Prey on the Weak.

Question 1: Keep it the way of the panther, or tweak the spec so there are 4pts in Maces and 4 in PotW, or 3 in maces 5 in PotW.

My reasoning for the switch would be that both OH/MH benefit from the extra two points in PotW, whereas only my MH would benefit from the extra 6% armor ignore given from the two points in Mace spec.


Question 2: What is the expertise cap? (if this is acheived, then the two points in Weapon Mastery can be substituted to allow both 5 points in Mace Spec. and PotW).

Mut question:

I spec'd Mut with only 1/2 SnD and the SnD Glyph. I felt that the uptime with 2/2 SnD is just too much, I find myself using Envenom with about 10-12 seconds remaining on SnD, with Rupture going already.
The problem I'm encountering is what to do with the spare point. I was considering just putting it into CQC or TtT.
However, theres times when Im sitting around waiting for my DP to stack, and watching my energy cap out for 3-4 seconds or more. Would It be wise to use the spare point and grab Vigor(which I and many others have considered ineffective investiture for raiding) which would allow me to pool my energy a bit longer without waste, so that right after I get DP stacked I can get a guaranteed 2x Mut and HfB refresh?

I considered refreshing HfB before things like this happen, however I've only found that in my rotations, I only really have 2 opportunities to refresh, at about 14s-15s, and about 1s-2s remaining. It's cutting it really close.

tl;dr: The energy drain from 2x Mut after Envenom is leaving me with too small a window to refresh HFB. Should I invest 1 point into Vigor(20E with glyph) to solve this problem?

side note: I think whatever saved energy not spent on cycle like this might also be used on Mut's at 4CP, turning them to 5, in essence, for free.

Really tired, sorry if it didnt make any sense.

I have just turned 80 and am working on my pre raid gear for 10 mans. I have been given 2 Librarian's Paper Cutters which are 1.3 speed. Now I understand that my mut crits will be lower because the top end damage is less then other daggers with slower speeds. From what I've read though, the faster speeds will allow faster poison damage and faster attacks which may actually increase my dps. So when I am looking at my spec, do i want to take all the poison associated talents? What talents are crucial and which are not so important? Should I still take lethality?

If this has been discussed before please point me in the direction.

It sounds like you're trying to stick to a set rotation, which isn't the right mind set with regards to optimizing mutilate dps.

It's a priority based decision system.

1) refresh hfb and keep snd up with envenom
2) keep rupture up as much as possible
3) envenom whenever you have pooled energy and the above criteria are able to be maintained while doing so.

There's nothing wrong with adding an extra envenom as long as snd and hfb don't drop and you don't lose enough rupture uptime to negate the extra dmg from the envenom, in fact it's preferred.

Whether points in imp snd are worth it to help you do that more, that's a different question, but it's generally accepted not to be, although I don't have the math handy for that case.

It has already been discussed in any of the innumerable "what's the best spec?" questions that have been asked.

Something similar to this is most likely what you're looking for. To answer your exact question yes, you do want all the poison talents.

Any idea what the best combat dagger build would be? Basically I would guess the deal is to sacrifise as few good talents as possible in order to get 3 points in Puncturing Wounds. The problem is of course that 51 points are stuck in the combat tree anyway, so DPS will suffer. But there are still a good amount of people interested in combat dagger, and I'd like to be able to help the people in my guild should they ask about the best build for it.

Why would you want to spec combat dagger and have your dps suffer if you could spec mutilate? The answer to the question "Which is the best combat dagger build" is "Spec Mutilate or combat fist/dagger".

I am getting this fromanother post on the site and was just curious to what a 3/5/5, 1/5/4, 1/5/5, 2/5/5 rotation involves (for a combat swords rogue) I'm guessing thats 3 s+d/5 s+d/3R. However the combo's after that have got me stumped? Any help would be appreciated <3

@madman If you want them to get the most out of it, tell them to spec mutilate.

@Anonymousrogue as combat swords you definitly dont run SnD twice in your cycles. So either its x SnD / y Rupture or x SnD / y Rupture / Z Envenom/Eviscerate

Thanks very much, I'm quite new to a rogue (played as a shaman up until now). I will go by the standard rules that are "Lurk More" on most forums and you may see me post here and there, excuse my ignorance sorry and your answer is appreciated .

I know. I don't see a point in rehashing this, but some people just stay with a spec, and I don't see no harm in trying to advice them as best as I can. There is no need to remind me that combat dagger is not optimal, but if there is a place to ask where to tweak the last bit out of a certain spec, I think it would be here in this thread. You really don't need to convince me about how it lags behind the alternatives, I just wanted to know how to best spend those last few talent points that will need to be moved around for those people who choose (against my advice) to stay with that spec. Just because someone chooses something less optimal to begin with, doesn't mean that they aren't willing or able to tweak the best result out of it even considering the limitations.

I'm at work (and so can't test this myself right now) but was wondering if pet crits trigger the extra CP from HaT?

If they do, in the (unlikely, for us at least) event of having two or three hunters in your party would anyone care to speculate on whether this would make the spec able of outputting some competitive DPS at this stage in the expansion on farm content?

e: Tried this last night. Can confirm pet crits do trigger it.

It's an interesting utility spec really. Was nice to be able to target an uncontrolled spark on Malygos and shadowstep to it then have enough CPs to do a 4/5 point KS etc.

The damage on tank and spanks as expected was poor. I didn't really see a problem with the rate of CP generation (I went with Feral, Ret, Hunter, FuryWarr) I just wasnt getting enough damage out.

Is it worth getting Titansteel Shanker to start raiding? Speed 1.6 seems a little bit between slow for high crit and fast for more poison procs...
The next dagger I would try to get asap would be The Fleshshaper just for the dps compared to my current ones.

considering the cost, I think you'd be best served just picking up two [Librarian's Paper Cutter]

It's a BOE drop from Heroic Halls of Lightning. Check your local AH.

sacrifice 5 points from lethality, put 2 in opportunity.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not optimal at all, so I don't know why your friends would want to stay combat with daggers, but this spec at least provides a little flexibility since you can throw a fist weapon in the main hand and play it like a traditional combat spec for when you can't get behind a mob, though without lethality.

Have not seen any discussion about this trinket yet: [Grim Toll] Just wondering what everyone's opinion was.

As much as armor penetration is widely considered "bad" nowadays, the trinket has so much of it that it's actually good. The spreadsheet is rating it really high at the moment, but not as good as Fury of the Five Flights/Mirror of Truth. So it is a great trinket, but it might be a better idea in the long run to pass on it and go for the other two.

Regarding 2 fast dagers for a mutilate build. What would 2x Saronite shiv be like?