They changed overkill. Now muti rogues can keep up 30% regeneration rate for energy as long as we want. Lasts for 20 seconds while stealth's cooldown is only 10 seconds. So is this enough to make mutilate a better raid build than combat?

Yes, stealth's cooldown is only 10 seconds, but as stealth can't be used in combat and vanish has at least a 2 minute cooldown this isn't anything like what you made it out to be.

This change, while a tiny PvE buff, was most likely implemented to nerf FoK's synergy with overkill allowing for crazy AoE and the burst in PvP. Best case scenario the most you could get out of the old overkill was 40 maybe 50 energy. The new overkill grants 60 energy over 20 seconds using a 3 minute cooldown. This works out to a net gain of 20 energy over the old overkill which is nice, but hardly game changing.

Slight correction - if Tricks and HfB were used while stealthed you could get a full 60 energy out of the old Overkill, so the new version is a wash with the old min-maxed Overkills. Still a nice change because now you get 60 energy without having to maximize ability usage.

I'm new to level 80 rogueing and thought I'd try the spreadsheet method for tracking gear and making upgrade decisions. However, since as I said I'm fairly new (Just hit 80 a few days ago and only have a few epics on that character), and Aldriana's spreadsheet seems tailored to those who are already fully equipped with Naxxramas or higher gear.

Are there there better spreadsheet options for a new rogue, something I'm missing in Aldriana's sheet, or should I just stick with good old static EP values plugged into Pawn until I get some more gear?

It's fundamentally flawed in the strictest sense, but for a quick and dirty estimation of gear for someone in your position, you could do worse than consulting Shadowpanther's list: PVE Armor Chart

Well no it won't be anything but a very small bonus for a boss fight, but it will be a very nice thing to have for every fight leading up to there. It should help out quite a bit for people who haven't gotten to 80 yet too. I thought it was a lot easier to lvl with combat than muti mostly because of the higher energy recharge. Having a better energy recharge with muti will help out a bit with training.

I hope this is a simple question
I am geared via naxx 25 and some ulda 10. Yet my dps is not as high as it should be. I am being beaten by lesser geared combat rogues. I am a mut rogue.
my rotaiton is
garrote - mut to 5 - SnD - mut to 5 - rup - hfb - mut to 5 - envenom to refresh SnD - then repeat of making sure rup is up when i envenom and that my SnD and hfb do not fall.

Is there something i can do to fix this rotation so that my dps better matches my gear?

my dps is about 4k at moment. but i would like ot make it higher.

I'm no expert, but I think I can see one thing fundamentally wrong with that rotation right away: AFAIK, you should get HFB up as soon as you come out of Garrote, then continue. Garrote counts as the 'bleed effect' needed to start up HFB, you don't need to wait for Rupture. Waiting until after Rupture to start it up, you're losing out 15% base damage to all of those Mutilates and the Rupture.

I could be wrong.

oh cool yes that could explain things i only knew of rupture counting as starting, I will try that tongiht in naxx 25. ty very much.

Is overkill activated coming out of shadowmeld as well as vanish/normal stealth?

No. Though you can Shadowmeld and then go into stealth, but the success rate of that on a boss fight is probably fairly low.

Hey all. I'm a new poster and just have one question.

I recently picked up Calamity's Grasp yesterday and am deciding to go combat for the first time since TBC. When using your cooldowns on a standard fight, with no burn phases (such as XT-002), is it more beneficial to spread out the cooldowns (KS, AR, and BF) or blow them all at once and keep hitting them as soon as they pop up again?

bloodxslayer,

If you are not restricted to saving your CDs for these burn phases you mentioned, you always want to sync as many cooldowns together as possible (including trinket procs, bloodlust/heroism and the like).
The only exception that comes to mind: AR and KS don't go well together as you'll cap energy and the AR benefit pretty much goes to waste.

Another thing you may want to do is mut untill 4 OR 5 CP's. you may get the odd Ruthlessness and 2 muts to a 5cp rupture/envenom but for the most part, a ruthlessness and seal fate on a mut crit will have you at 4cps almost instantly for another finisher. On my rogue, 75% of my finishers are 4 CP finishers and I maintain the highest dps of our raid and rogues.

Remember, if you dont get the Ruthlessness proc, and are at 4cp's. you are wasting a CP with another mut.

I just had a look at the updated Sample Output for 3.1.2:

SampleOutputT8 - simulationcraft - Google Code

There is no ranking for 51/7/13 or 15/51/5.
In Aldriana's spreadsheet 51/7/13 is higher rated with late Ulduar gear (4c T8), and the Sample Output works with BiS lists, so why 51/13/7 comes ahead?

Well, even after 3.2 comes out - assuming epic gems are not introduced - JC will still be the best profession - just not by very much (66 EP vs 64 EP for most others). And if epic gems come out, no one really knows what will be the best.

Of course, the other consideration is that 3.2 is probably not going to come out for some months yet - I'd be surprised if we saw it before October or so at the earliest. So you have to ask yourself what value there is in having the runaway best profession for the 3 or 5 or 7 months between now and 3.2.

Thus: there's still a case to be made for JC. Whether it's worth the cost to you... only you can answer that.

Generally is better to stack haste-like effects like BF and Berserking for trolls , because they are more added dps when blown together.

And if you still have 2x mongoose on weapons, is even better using the BF during that...

But KS and AR don't work well together for example, because you can't use abilties during KS, and energy will cap, most likely, resulting in a dps lose.

I think that rotation is wrong, the part where you mutilate always up to 5 CPs. The standard mutilate cycle is made of 4+ finishers.. that means that you get usually to 4 points and don't waste a mutilate to get 1 single point to reach 5. If you get the fifth by a seal fate proc, even better.. but don't waste a mutilate when you could do an additional envenom for example.

When i was mutilate my rotation was like :

- Garrote at start
- Snd with the first CP
- Activate HFB
- get to 4+ points( very fast with muti spec )
- Envenom (SnD refresh)
- get to 4+ points
- Rupture

and so on.. i never waste a mutilate to get 1 point, only if you can get at least 2.

Would blowing AR/BF at beginning be better then waiting say till 50% for heroism? Basically getting 2 AR's better then saving it for heroism and only gettign 1 AR?

Most of the situations I've encountered are fights long enough to be able to use AR and still have the cooldown done by the time you hit 50%, or a fight so short you'd only get 1 AR anyways. My gut says 2 ARs is better than 1 with a Heroism.

AR doesn't really scale in any meaningful way with heroism, so you definitely shouldn't bother saving AR for Hero. Similarly Killing Spree. The only one you might even think about saving is Blade Flurry.

I read the Pocket Guide about Rogues and started a long discussion in my raid about Combat Rogues and Expertise. The thread states that Expertise is really a bad stat for Combat Rogues. Does that mean that Combats don't really have to go for the 6,5%? Or are other stats more important before the cap (Agi/ArP)?