I read the Pocket Guide about Rogues and started a long discussion in my raid about Combat Rogues and Expertise. The thread states that Expertise is really a bad stat for Combat Rogues. Does that mean that Combats don't really have to go for the 6,5%? Or are other stats more important before the cap (Agi/ArP)?
Mutilate rouges like Expertise and gem for it because it helps with cycle stability as well as giving a DPS boost. Because of this it is a good stat for Mutilate.
Combat rouges have Surprise Attacks to help guarantee cycle stability; as such there is no reason to gem for expertise as combat. It is not a "bad" stat for combat but it just isn't nearly as useful as it is for Mutilate.
I read the Pocket Guide about Rogues and started a long discussion in my raid about Combat Rogues and Expertise. The thread states that Expertise is really a bad stat for Combat Rogues. Does that mean that Combats don't really have to go for the 6,5%? Or are other stats more important before the cap (Agi/ArP)?
It just means that Expertise is a less valuable stat. Since Combat's finishers can't be dodged, Expertise becomes a lot less useful (a missed Envenom can kill SnD for Mutilate, but a missed Evis or Rupture just means you perform the finisher again on the next cooldown). Essentially it tells you that there's always a better stat to gem for. Also, the caps are just there as information about the point where stats become less valuable. After you pass the special cap Hit loses a certain amount of value, after you pass the poison cap it loses more, etc.
I read the Pocket Guide about Rogues and started a long discussion in my raid about Combat Rogues and Expertise. The thread states that Expertise is really a bad stat for Combat Rogues. Does that mean that Combats don't really have to go for the 6,5%? Or are other stats more important before the cap (Agi/ArP)?
The short answer is that other stats are more important to combat, and that you don't need to gear for a specific number. (That being said, I'm gemmed for expertise in order to switch between Mut & Combat easily.)
Longer answer:
* Weapon Expertise adds 10 expertise rating, so you're already 2/5ths to the cap without any gear.
* Surprise Attacks prevents Rupture & Eviscerate from being dodged - though they will likely only account for 10-15% of your damage (if my last parse was typical). This leaves only Sinister Strike & white damage affected by expertise, reducing the value of expertise a little more.
* Expertise is comparatively more valuable to Mutilate rogues, as fewer/no dodges smooths out the cycle.
Technically, Echophantom is correct about caps, except expertise does have a hard cap, which you should not go past. Unless you plan on being in front of bosses a lot and have to worry about reducing their parry chance. Of course, in that situation, a better idea would be to figure out whether or not you really need to be in front of the boss.
Is there a point where the lack of armor on a boss pushes Eviscerate over Envenom even for Mutilate? I'm specifically wondering about this question for XT's heart.
I'm afraid the GoogleCode wki-update for SimulationCraft is not working at the moment. I've opened an Issue with the GoogleCode folks and they are investigating.
I'm afraid our talent/gear settings are often lagging a bit behind. I try to make sure I use Aldriana's gear/talent setups. If there is a discrepancy it is simply because I haven't gotten around to updating the Rogue profiles yet. And seriously: If there is a significant difference between Aldriana's numbers and SimulationCraft output, then it means there is a bug in my code.
AR doesn't really scale in any meaningful way with heroism, so you definitely shouldn't bother saving AR for Hero. Similarly Killing Spree. The only one you might even think about saving is Blade Flurry.
I was under the impression ks's modifier makes it beneficial to stack with bf/hero?
Hmm. I suppose I'd forgotten about that. Although my instinct would be to say it's not a particularly large DPS contribution - I'd file it under "If you can squeeze it, great, but it's not worth giving up a Killing Spree for".
I was under the impression ks's modifier makes it beneficial to stack with bf/hero?
You would be correct. The 20% extra damage during Killing Spree would synergize well with the added haste (ie more attacks at the increased damage rate). As long as you're careful not to let energy cap during Killing Spree you would do well.
my GM claims that combat DPS is far superior to mutilate once you get 4pc T8, is this true? I can see why, but I just need a confirmation.
No the way he said it, it's not true. Combat DPS is on par with mutilate dps on non-murderable targets after the armor penetration cap was put in the game. Mutilate DPS on murderable targets, such as humanoids and giants is significantly higher than combat DPS in full t8.
However it's worth noting that combat has other advantages that people on these forums often talk about, and a clever use of timers, such as blade flurry and adrenaline rush, can get you a long way on some fights, including higher overall dps on that fight. Combat with throwing specialization is also a good choice where aoe interrupts are helpful.
But from pure single-target dps perspective, he's incorrect.
No the way he said it, it's not true. Combat DPS is on par with mutilate dps on non-murderable targets after the armor penetration cap was put in the game. Mutilate DPS on murderable targets, such as humanoids and giants is significantly higher than combat DPS in full t8.
However it's worth noting that combat has other advantages that people on these forums often talk about, and a clever use of timers, such as blade flurry and adrenaline rush, can get you a long way on some fights, including higher overall dps on that fight. Combat with throwing specialization is also a good choice where aoe interrupts are helpful.
But from pure single-target dps perspective, he's incorrect.
ok thanks, I know that combat will help in certain burn fights like hard mode council where timers really matter, but we already have a combat rogue so I think I'll stay mutilate if the DPS is on par.
When checking Aldriana's Combat Spreadsheat I found out that Accuracy on the OH is a very small upgrade towards having your OH enchanted with Berserking. Keep in mind that Accuracy was the best with Sword Spec. whilst Berserking was still on top with CQC!
I mean, sure, if Accuracy was on top with every weaponspec I would understand, but why only when using swords? (Didnt try Mace though, so I cant say for sure about this one!)
I dont see how Accuracy would actually be ontop of Berserking when using Swords, anyone care to explain that to me?
When checking Aldriana's Combat Spreadsheat I found out that Accuracy on the OH is a very small upgrade towards having your OH enchanted with Berserking. Keep in mind that Accuracy was the best with Sword Spec. whilst Berserking was still on top with CQC!
I mean, sure, if Accuracy was on top with every weaponspec I would understand, but why only when using swords? (Didnt try Mace though, so I cant say for sure about this one!)
I dont see how Accuracy would actually be on top of Berserking when using Swords, anyone care to explain that to me?
I brought up the same point in this post. Aldriana's reply is right below it, but for the lazy readers wondering the same thing, it's also right here:
Originally Posted by Aldriana
Briefly stated: Berserking increases the value of Accuracy, and vice versa - so while with some gear sets Accuracy does get high enough that it will show up as a recommendation, if you actually switch to it, your DPS goes down slightly and it recommends Berserking again. Or at least, I haven't seen a situation in which Accuracy actually yields a higher DPS number - the circumstances may exist, but it's certainly rare. So as a rule of thumb, I think "Berserking is better" is a pretty fair assessment.
On Ignis, when you go into the pot can you CoS to reduce the damage? yeah yeah I know i should try it but this was just an after thought we cleared him earlier and i never tried it. Was just curious.
On Ignis, when you go into the pot can you CoS to reduce the damage? yeah yeah I know i should try it but this was just an after thought we cleared him earlier and i never tried it. Was just curious.
No. You can't do anything in there besides chugging a pot or stone.
I am looking for information of how exactly the interrupt mechanism of Throwing specialization works with Fan of Knives. I am especially concerned with the delay I am experiencing with it. Kick interrupts immediately, but when I use Fan of Knives I have the feeling that the target gets interrupted about 0.5sec later. Even worse, when the target castbar is showing less than 1sec (e.g: 0.9sec) when I do FoK, I fail to interrupt altogether. It bothers me, especially with the typical 2 sec cast time and FoK being on GCD.
OK, I did not get any concrete answer to my question, but digging in the logs I can see the following time dependencies.
1:55'46.469 Wytryszek Fan of Knives hits Freya #1 for 1273 Physical. (Critical)
1:55'46.485 Wytryszek Wound Poison VII hits Freya #1 for 501 Nature.
1:55'46.547 Wytryszek Fan of Knives hits Freya #1 for 2319 Physical. (Critical)
1:55'46.547 Freya #1's Wound Poison VII is refreshed.
1:55'46.547 Wytryszek Wound Poison VII hits Freya #1 for 696 Nature. (Critical) (50 Resisted)
1:55'46.907 Wytryszek Throwing Specialization failed. Freya #1 was immune.
1:55'46.907 Wytryszek Throwing Specialization failed. Freya #1 was immune.
1:55'46.969 Wytryszek Throwing Specialization failed. Freya #1 was immune.
1:55'46.969 Wytryszek Throwing Specialization failed. Freya #1 was immune.
So in fact it seems there is a delay of 0.4-0.5 sec, but not on the Fan of Knives itself, but between the FoK hits and the Throwinig Spec interrupt ability.
And why is the interrupt applied twice per hit? Is that just log of for real? Does it mean that 1/2 in throwing spec is enough, because there is 94% chance with 4 attempts at 50%?
No. You can't do anything in there besides chugging a pot or stone.
I'm actually quit worried about doing anything at all while being in slag pot, had some weird issues with white hits not landing after slag pot, while i still could land mutilate and finishers.
That issue is a known bug. All you have to do is clear your target and reselect you target to get your white attacks to land again.
Thanks, when had that bug, vanished, used cloak and probably reselected him, so while i got my white hits land again, i didn't found out which once solved that exactly.
Let's say you have sets of equal daggers, fists, swords, and maces. What would be the best to use for MH and OH and how to allocate your pts into CQC, sword and/or maces? Mix your weapon types and pts or not?
06/03/09, 3:54 PM
Similar Threads
