Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 134

PessimiStick · 03/04/09, 10:53 AM

The proc on Grim Toll is significantly stronger, itemization-wise, than the other options. That's the main reason it can come out ahead of other options. 612 rating is the same as 1224 AP from a budget standpoint, to give you an idea of it's relative level compared to Mirror.

Cyllan · 03/04/09, 10:54 AM

I believe that Aldriana has suggested that FotFF's estimated dps is best case, while Mirror's estimated dps is worst-case-ish. FotFF is said to be best on uninterrupted fights (Patchwerk, etc.) while Mirror is better on movement-oriented/interrupted fights (Grob, etc.).

Grim Toll is typically worth more to combat builds than to mutilate builds due to the nature of ArPen, and could conceivable come out ahead on the spreadsheet.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch.

Dyslexic` · 03/04/09, 3:31 PM

I have a quick question, and I'm hoping someone can answer it for me. Currently, my rogue is using Twilight Mist and Anarchy, due to not having accessed any faster speed daggers. I'm aware that currently the best dagger in the game is Webbed Death due to the fast speed which allows for poison procs. However, in 3.1 Blizzard intends to put poisons on a PPM. If they are changed to PPM, will the 1.8 speed daggers again become the best for mutilate due to highest top-end damage?

Parra · 03/04/09, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dyslexic`

I have a quick question, and I'm hoping someone can answer it for me. Currently, my rogue is using Twilight Mist and Anarchy, due to not having accessed any faster speed daggers. I'm aware that currently the best dagger in the game is Webbed Death due to the fast speed which allows for poison procs. However, in 3.1 Blizzard intends to put poisons on a PPM. If they are changed to PPM, will the 1.8 speed daggers again become the best for mutilate due to highest top-end damage?

With the current mechanic that is implemented right now the best option for 3.1 seems to be low speed main hand ip, low speed offhand with deadly poison. This because deadly poison is not affected by the ppm mechanic and still requires a fast weapon to re-apply it.

Shinsoku · 03/04/09, 3:37 PM

Long time lurker, barely post.

I've been combat swords for a while now since a) we don't have a combat specced rogue for the savage combat debuff (heck, we barely have any rogues in the guild that go to raids) and b) my two best weapons were swords (hence swords for combat).

After doing a Naxx10 to gear some alts, I got KT's Reach, which made me want to spec combat CQC (KT's Reach + Hand of Nerub). However, according to the spreadsheet, combat swords (7/51/13 with a 4s/5r rotation; using Silent Crusader + Widow's Fury) beats combat CQC (15/51/5 with a 4s/5r/5e rotation; using KT Reach + Hand of Nerub), but just by a little (~20 DPS).

Anyways, I'm just wondering whether or not combat CQC would be better overall. I know that the spreadsheet is just theoretical DPS. In addition, combat swords is a tad more reliant on hit...

Sure, maybe I know that, in my case, CQC > Swords. However, I'm just looking for a second opinion from someone here.

Thanks!

blbrchnk · 03/04/09, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Parra

With the current mechanic that is implemented right now the best option for 3.1 seems to be low speed main hand ip, low speed offhand with deadly poison. This because deadly poison is not affected by the ppm mechanic and still requires a fast weapon to re-apply it.

You kinda contradicted yourself, don't you mean high speed (i.e. WD) OH w/ DP?

Lynbernard · 03/04/09, 6:55 PM

<-- Advice requested:

Combat Swords; 15/51/5 -- still averaging 1.8k dps. Need find a way to boost it up to 3k or more. I may not been hitting combos right.

1 -> Sinster Strike 2 -> Slice / Dice 3 -> Blade FLurry 4 -> ARush 5-> Rupture 6-> Evi

I hit 1, then wait til 3CP, start 2, then hit 5 i start 5.
Hit 4, then hit 1 til 5 then hit 6 -- rinse and repeat.. keep the slice/dice active..

saedo · 03/04/09, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Lynbernard

<-- Advice requested:

Combat Swords; 15/51/5 -- still averaging 1.8k dps. Need find a way to boost it up to 3k or more. I may not been hitting combos right.

1 -> Sinster Strike 2 -> Slice / Dice 3 -> Blade FLurry 4 -> ARush 5-> Rupture 6-> Evi

I hit 1, then wait til 3CP, start 2, then hit 5 i start 5.
Hit 4, then hit 1 til 5 then hit 6 -- rinse and repeat.. keep the slice/dice active..

Get buffs. That'll boost it up to 3K. Don't bother with target dummies if you're looking for good numbers. But otherwise, yea 3s/5r/5e. Emphasis on the s, that should not fall off even if you have to cut the others out of the cycle due to luck or whatever.

Toxins · 03/04/09, 9:11 PM

Hello EJ, I hit 80 on my new rogue (Ditched my old undead 80 for the alliance) and have been muti forever. I love muti but after testing the HFB changes I will definitely be going combat 3.1

I would also like to start playing combat now just for a change and I've got a few questions. My gear is pretty terrible and this much I do know. I was wondering:

1. For a newly geared rogue what would be the best weapons to get while trying to get greed? I was thinking Lpc OH and Reaper of Dark Souls MH but the other thing that caught my eye was Fang of Truth for the OH.

2. About the spec> Would the 15/51/5(4 points swords) be better than the 7/51/13? Or should I try out the shiv build for the lasts of its glory?

Lastly, I apologize for not going directly to the spreadsheets but currently I have no access to excel or an excel viewer, If I did that would definitely be my first check.

Acyrith · 03/04/09, 9:57 PM

So a question or two about mutilate rotations.

I am running the standard 4+/4+ envenom rotation where I drop a rupture at 4+ combo points, and then fit in 1-2 envenoms each at 4+ combo points before hitting rupture again. As well I generally try to pool to 60+ energy before using a finisher. There are however a few situations in which I'm not entirely sure what the best course of action is.

1) I have < 60 energy, and rupture is about to drop. If I rupture immediately I have minimal rupture downtime but I have left myself short a bit of energy for the next round of my rotation. The question then is whether rupturing at less than 60+ energy is a good idea or not? Intuitively it seems that casting the rupture early would be to my benefit, but I'm concerned that I'm leaving myself a bit energy starved and costing myself down the line.

2) I have > 60 energy, lots of time on hfb, 4+ combo points, and a rupture that still has a second or two on it. If I go for another envenom I'm guaranteeing a fairly big gap in rupture uptime , but I can't really wait to rupture because I risk capping out on energy. I'm assuming I probably just want to envenom as that should be more damage than a few lost seconds of rupture time?

ShadowEric · 03/04/09, 10:49 PM

1) Pool so as not to clip Rupture. EDIT: Misunderstood what you meant. I'd Rupture. Sitting waiting for energy after you applied Rupture is better than pooling before re-applying and having nothing else giving you extra DPS.
2) Yeah, envenom. The excess of energy should allow you to get 4+ combo points fairly quickly to reapply Rupture.

Phunkay · 03/05/09, 12:27 AM

Hey I've been reading up on all the 3.1 theorycrafting, and combat seems the best way to go, but I'm still not sure what weapons I should be using, someone told me that swords will be good again with the new LR.

I've got the following weapons to work with:

Webbed Death x2
Sinister Revenge
Hailstorm
Silent Crusader
Crimson Steel
The Hand of Nerub

Any thoughts?

Tinwhisker · 03/05/09, 1:35 AM

Originally Posted by Phunkay

Hey I've been reading up on all the 3.1 theorycrafting, and combat seems the best way to go, but I'm still not sure what weapons I should be using, someone told me that swords will be good again with the new LR.

Hang tight, 3.1 won't be on live for a while, there will certainly be more changes coming to what we know anyway. Any hardcore theorycrafting won't take place for a while yet. Yes, Combat looks good but it's mostly just napkin math at this point.

Keep the gear you have, try to fill holes in the slots you don't. To pass the time, I suggest watching the drama in the official forums. Some of it is very entertaining.

blbrchnk · 03/05/09, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by Toxins

Hello EJ, I hit 80 on my new rogue (Ditched my old undead 80 for the alliance) and have been muti forever. I love muti but after testing the HFB changes I will definitely be going combat 3.1

I would also like to start playing combat now just for a change and I've got a few questions. My gear is pretty terrible and this much I do know. I was wondering:

1. For a newly geared rogue what would be the best weapons to get while trying to get greed? I was thinking Lpc OH and Reaper of Dark Souls MH but the other thing that caught my eye was Fang of Truth for the OH.

2. About the spec> Would the 15/51/5(4 points swords) be better than the 7/51/13? Or should I try out the shiv build for the lasts of its glory?

Lastly, I apologize for not going directly to the spreadsheets but currently I have no access to excel or an excel viewer, If I did that would definitely be my first check.

You could always download open office. It is a free office suite that should do everything you need it to.

Onslaught · 03/05/09, 11:30 AM

I just picked up Calamity's Grasp last night and I already had WD so im going Combat til the patch goes live. The pocket guild says

Without sword spec (fist/mace MH and dagger/fist/mace OH):
OH speed = 1.4: DP/WP
OH speed > 1.4: WP/DP

Is this still the same or has it changed?

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