Icos

Whats the EP value for combat for bandit's insignia? Aldriana's spreadsheet doesn't have it listed.

 

◊ chalon

It's well under Mirror of Truth, DMC:G, and FotFF, thus not worth really listing.

 

ggxreloaded

Just the topic I am looking for. However, this is directed for PVE mut specced Rogues. I was wondering if I should attempt to hit the expertise cap for my Rogue but I don't know if it is really worth it or not. During the last couple of days I upgraded a few peices of gears and lost around 10 points of expertise on the tool tip and am wondering if that will affect my dps greatly. I currently gemmed most of my gear to have +16 agility but debating if it is necessary to hit the cap for expertise first before gemming AGI. I have already hit the poison hit cap so I can worry less about that. What would benefit me more in the long run?

 

Tinwhisker

As has been said before, for Assassination, reaching the expertise cap is done for cycle stability and the difference between that and gem'ing straight agility isn't significant enough to notice. Most rogues will gem to the cap for this reason.

Not actively trying to reach the cap and gem'ing Agility (or AP I guess) instead is still acceptable though. The spreadsheets will probably give you better answers about which is higher DPS for your gear but gem'ing for expertise is largely personal preference.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

marson

Im wondering if someone could help me with explaining just how HFB works and apologies if this sounds like a silly question but im new to rogue mechanics,


I under stand that you need to have a bleed in order to use the ability but once its up do i only get the +15% dmg increase against the target with the bleed on or can i switch to a target without a bleed on and still be getting the buff or would i need to reaplly a bleed or another class get a bleed on even if the hfb i had from the first mob is still running

Anyhelp much appreciated


So once i get HFB up i can attack a target without a bleed and still get increased dmg as i was under the impression you would only get the buff if you were attacking a target with a bleed

Cheers

 

Istaril

It's a buff with a casting restriction. You can only cast it if your current target has a bleed effect on them. From then on, you have the buff (until it expires, a minute later) - and gain it's full effect regardless of your target (or even without a target).

 

marson

Ah i see, so in your average trash pack / boss with adds aslong as theres a bleed on one of the targets HFB becomes usable and you get the buff for straight dmg increase against any target regardless if it has a bleed on it

thanks again

 

Darkslinger

Can i have some help with my trinkets, i use bandits insignia and grim toll and have 420+hit but have recently got pyrite infuser, with pyrite infuser and grim toll i have 500+ is the EP value of pyrite infuser more than bandits insignia in this case.

 

Mavanas

Bandit's insignia is such a bad trinket compared to easily available Mirror of Truth and DMC:G that neither me nor Aldriana bother to calculate its EP value.

 

jerm

Whats the reason behind using Wound poison for MH over Instant? Looked around but all i could find was that was what you should do, not why you should do it

 

saedo

Higher proc rate.

Would need Imp Poison talents to make IP feasible over WP.

 

krylonblue

i'm pretty sure i know the answer to this, but with the changes to ArP, does the Executioner enchant have anymore viability?

i know Berserking is still better, but would Executioner get bumped up at all?

 

Jinro

I guess in theory it would, but I'm pretty sure that, just like with all "old" enchants, the procrate is reduced significantly once you're lvl 80.

 

Punisherx

So in pvp should I do WP on both weapons.

 

koaschten

Yes, unless you don't like being kited, you apply crippling poison on at least one weapon, preferably the offhand to apply it with shiv.

 

Dontmindme

Actually, I recall doing a little testing with Mongoose at the beginning of this expansion and that did not seem to be the case for the 70 enchants. It appeared that they were changed in the following way:

Old: ~1.2-1.33 PPM but reduced by Haste.

New: ~1 PPM not affected by Haste.

At least for Mongoose, it seemed to be just as effective as it ever was but with a reduced base proc rate that is more than made up for by the lack of Haste normalization. I would suspect the same mechanics would apply to Executioner. You will also note that Blizzard has been getting better about marking those enchants with reduced effects in the tooltips and neither Mongoose nor Executioner are marked as such.

Thus, one could compare the various enchants by their procs:
400 AP
120 Agi + 2% haste (~65.58 haste rating)
120 ArP

I don't believe ArP gets that much better than Agi to make up for the additional haste rating, but you could probably figure it out how it applies to your specific gear by looking at the EP values from your spreadsheet of choice and doing the appropriate math. Also, Executioner didn't used to double-proc, meaning if you put it on both weapons, the procs overwrite themselves.

 

strawberryfm

 

campiona

I prefer to use IP/WP and spec into Deadly Brew. Then Shiv guarantees you get at least two poisons on the target -- including the vitally important CP in PvP.

 

Joigahdenn

This is getting off topic of PvE, but why use IP/WP? The only thing I can imagine is that IP hits harder when it is applied, so you get a little more (random) burst. With dual WP/WP you'll generally be doing more damage overall, and you'll have a much stronger likelihood of keeping WP applied for the healing debuff...

 

Linstar

For PvP absolute best setup is wound/wound. You dont have the imp poison talent to make instant poison proc enough to do more damage. Also, you want to keep up your healing debuff and crippling so you dont get kited. Rare cases against druids it's acceptable to use wound/deadly but thats about it.

 

sublime1090

I have a question regarding rather unconventional weapon combinations.

I am currently specced CQC combat and possess these three weapons:

[Kel'Thuzad's Reach] (Current MH)
[Kinetic Ripper] (Current OH)
[Sinister Revenge]

Would replacing either of my fist weapons with Sinister Revenge yield higher dps?

I only ask because due to the unconventional weapon speed combination Sinister Revenge does not show up on the spreadsheet for the OH slot.

 

saedo

A reason it doesn't show up is because it's a terrible idea.

 

animagic

A little less sarcasm in the response would be more helpful.

It IS a bad idea, based solely on the fact of weapon speed. The Kinetic Ripper, whilst being slightly lower dps, is a better offhand due to it being .3 faster then Sinister Revenge. This equates to more Combat Potency procs. I believe the basic rule of thumb is that every .1 faster that the offhand weapon in question is, compared to a slower weapon, than you "add" 10dps to the faster offhand per .1 speed faster. There are obvious places where this does not hold true such as the distinction between a 1.4 and a 1.5 speed weapon, where stats and ilevel need to be taken into effect to tell the true dps upgrade, but for the most part, thats the best way to tell what would produce better results.

Basically, faster is better.

As for your main hand, putting SR in your main hand would be pointless unless you were Mutilate spec'd. Combat daggers is rather terrible at the moment.

Stick with Kel'thuzad's and Kinetic Ripper.

 

• Aldriana

It's worse than that, actually; the .1 speed = 10 DPS equivalence was a good rule of thumb back in early TBC, but as gear and weapon DPS has improved since then, the amount of DPS needed to make up the same amount of speed has similarly increased. Given current itemization, to make up a .1 speed difference on a combat OH with pure weapon DPS would take close to 25 weapon DPS.

However, for an OH weapon, increased DPS is only about 2/3 of the benefit you get from increased item level - you also get more stats. From a practical perspective, what you wind up with is this: a weapon needs to be a full tier better to make up a .1 deficit in speed - and even then, depending on the quality of the stat distribution, it may or may not be better (compare [Rune-Etched Nightblade] to [Remorse] and [Void Sabre], for instance).

Hence, for a 1.5 speed OH to be inferior to Sinister Revenge, it would need to be roughly 3 full tiers lower. And given that there *aren't* any TBC epics 3 tiers below Sinister Revenge, it's basically not worth using if you have any 1.4 or 1.5 speed OH. Or even just a Paper Cutter.

Basically, a good rule of thumb is that if there isn't convenient modeling for an item that isn't cutting-edge content, there's probably a good reason. The reason no OHs slower than 1.6 are modeled is because they're all useless to combat. The reason why it's hard to find information about Naxx trinkets other than Grim Toll is because Darkmoon Card + Mirror of Truth is better. And so on.

 

Seltaeb

I'm at the level of having T7 now and due to my recent gear changes I lost some expertise (won't go into details about my stats because link to armory is visible for everyone). Now, I know that expertise is mostly important for Mutilate to avoid surprising situations like having 2 seconds to end of SnD and your Envenom being dodged, but even as combat I *feel* like my dps dropped a little. Should I just stop worrying about this, or do something to get me higher on expertise?
Also from the same reasons I got poison hit-capped so I decided to try out the Vile Poisons spec, and I think it works better for me right now, although I have a question about the rotation. In the basic combat spec there's a general rotation of 4s/5r and often manageable to throw in 5e and keep the rotation going. I had no idea what to do on 18/51/2 so I started with 2s/5r and then tried to keep them both up, ending at about 3-4s/5r with random Eviscerate during AR. I think it works pretty well is there anything I may want to know about this spec? Seen some people here like Mavanas that are pretty happy with it, so tip would be useful.