Aliani

Does Cloak of Shadows work through Algalons Big Bang cast. I only got to be outside twice this week, once I lived and ther other I died. Not sure if I got a lucky glitch or something. Thanks

 

Almehym

Big Bang is physical damage. Big Bang - Spell - World of Warcraft

 

evoslayer

On a related note, would the glyph of cloak of shadows work on the big bang, and would that stacked with feint be enough to survive it.

 

Kaidagar

Well if the glyphed cloak were effective and feint were active you would only be looking at taking between 10725-11275 damage, so it's survivable.

 

evoslayer

Exactly, has anyone tested this?

If it works it could be the best way to survive the big bang, as the CoS cool down is the same as the big bang cool down and it could be used on all 3 Big Bangs, saving tank/healer cool downs, priest dispersion etc.

 

• Aldriana

I think I'm missing here - per wowhead, even the 10man version of Big Bang does 76313 to 88687 physical damage; with Cloak of Shadows (40% glyphed), Feint (50%), and Blessing of Sanctuary (3%) - which would presumably stack multiplicatively given that most analogous effects do - you're still looking at 22207 - 25807 damage - which is only marginally survivable with full raid buffs (like, you'd need a PW:Shield or something to be sure). And swapping out a glyph (thus losing DPS) to save 5% DPS uptime on a boss at the expense of further burdening the healers seems... not that useful. And in 25 man, it's just straight up not going to be survivable.

Thus, I guess my answer to the question of if it's possible would be "maybe, but does it matter?" I don't see it being a particularly good idea even if it can be done.

 

evoslayer

Actually it depends on the order in which the effects are applied, im not claiming to be as knowledgeable about the mechanics as some other people, there may be something you know that I don't about multiplicative stacking but if the 50% reduction from feint were applied first, followed by the 40% reduction you get an 80% reduction which is about 17000 damage from the top end on 10 man, maybe still not survivable on 25 man,

10 man is where its really relevant as you are likely to not have two shadow priests and far fewer tank/healer cool downs to rely on.

 

• Aldriana

The order can't possibly matter, because both multiplication and addition commute (i.e., .5 * .6 = .6 * .5 - it's .3 either way). The only question is whether they're additive (i.e. 1-.5-.4 = .1) or multiplicative ((1-.4)*(1-.5) = .3) - and given that every analogous effect in the game is multiplicative, I'd assume the latter. If it's additive - okay, maybe it's worth doing. But until we have testing that shows otherwise, my guess would be multiplicative which gives us the numbers in my previous post.

 

evoslayer

Yea, my error, in this case my idea is probably irrelevant, if anyone wants to test it though, Feint is a somewhat unique effect could stack additively.

 

• Feist-Mok

It's Multiplicative. Big Bang on 10 man hits for ~20-25k with both up. While it's not a wise way to gain DPS, the fact that CoS and Big Bang are on the same cooldown means that with a reliable PW:S, you can tank every Big Bang, freeing up tanks to use their cooldowns for surviving Algalons fairly massive hits.

It won't be viable for every raid, but it's certainly a consideration worth noting.

 

Edrielle

#showtooltip Vanish
/use 14
/stopcasting
/cast Vanish

Will fix it if all is well.

Succesfully mutilating since pre-3,0.

 

Inevitable

So I was messing around with Aldriana's spreadsheet and it says I will get a slight DPS boost from using 18/51/2 instead of 15/51/5. I switched it up and then I realized that I've never seen another combat rogue who is specced like that. Should I follow what the spreadsheet tells me or is there a reason why no one runs 18/51/2? Thanks for any help I get on this!

 

traxis

On some fights that have lots of Fan of Knives spam (freya, thorim come to mind), relentless strikes' value isn't as important to your dps cycle, and the increase of poison damage is more valuable. Additionally if your rotation is easy to maintain and you notice energy cap-outs because of lots of energy generation, then relentless strikes is doing no good.

For example in my situation, in certain times on a fight with blade flurry, adrenaline rush, and heroism up (not to mention haste pot), my energy generation is so high that relentless procs get completely wasted.

Another large part of this (maybe the main reason?) is that poison damage scales with your AP and crit. So it may get to a point where the increased poison damage is just so huge that it outweighs the extra eviscerate you might pull off with the standard build.

So to the best of my memory that is why 18/51/2 can pull ahead of the standard combat spec.

 

Valustria

This is why you don't blow Adrenaline Rush while those other effects are active, unless you absolutely must pour a shitload of damage into multiple targets without concern for aggro or your energy capping while doing so.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Spencicle

I've got three quick questions

1) Is it always better to use Blade Flurry + Killing Spree over Blade Flurry + Adrenaline Rush

2) Should you only use Killing Spree when/if you have another rogue's Tricks of the Trade?

3) I've never actually tried for fear of massive DPS loss, but, can you actually Sinister Strike or Fan of Knives or anything while Killing Spree is active? Some told me yes some told me no because you technically lose control of your character.

 

Tinwhisker

1) I don't know the math on this one but I prefer the former over the latter.

2) Ideally you would want to but in practice it's better to use KSp rather than wait; this is especially true if waiting means you can only use it once instead of twice.

3) Auto-attacks only when KSp is active. Mash those buttons all you like but it won't do anything while KSp is active. This is why it's best to deplete your energy completely before using KSp.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

• Aldriana

The short answer to the first question is that it greatly depends on what you're doing. For single target DPS the three cooldowns are relatively independant - that is, they don't really synergize each other very much, so it doesn't matter too much what combination you use them in. On large packs, AR-FOK is going to generate a lot more Blade Flurry damage than KSp. If you're DPSing two targets and one is higher priority than the other, you want to use AR as it will deliver higher damage to your primary target. If both targets are of equal priority, it's a bit more ambiguous, but the point remains: which is going to be better in a given situation depends heavily on the exact scenario.

 

evoslayer

Wouldn't Blade Flurry synergize at least somewhat with Killing Spree, as auto attacks do continue during and do 20% more damage, more auto attacks at +20% due to attack speed from blade flurry would be a dps gain.

 

• Aldriana

A fair point, I suppose. It's worth noting, however, that that's a fairly minor effect and, as such, you certainly shouldn't be waiting on cooldowns to do both at the same time. If they're both up at the same time, great. If they're not... oh well.

 

MassMan

I've searched for Wound vs Deadly on offhand discussions for different bosses, but been unable to find any.

I assume the theorycrafting that states Deadly on offhand has a single target that you dps for a long period of time? If so, then bosses where you switch targets often or do a lot of aoe Wound on both mh/oh might be better?

 

Kaidagar

Part of the reason that deadly is so desirable is because of the 2 piece bonus from tier 8/8.5, where you gain energy from it's use. If you want to run with double wounding I'd suggest keeping a spare dagger with it in your inventory and swap it in and out as desired on trash ect.

 

spookymulder

so i have started using Aldriana's spreadsheet and have mostly everything figured out. The only problem i seem to be running into is the gems.

I have input my own gems and deleted the gem names and stats that came with the mutilate spreadsheet. I replaced the delecate scarlet ruby's with Bright scarlet ruby's Etc.

I list the gems i have in my gear, put the number (1) in the row that gem is being used and which color socket it is seated. I am starting to notice that my final DPS does not go up or down no matter which gems i use or which color socket they are in.

The final gem count equals out to (0) So i cant figure out what is going wrong. I only notice a DPS increase or decrease when i manually input another gem on another line and input the stats that the gem has.

So did i mess up but deleting the original gems and stats that came with the sheet and replacing them instead of just adding my new ones, or does each individual gem i have socketed get its own column?


for example: 5468 DPS
put a zero in all gems slots results in no DPS loss
then
start a new column with 16 Ap 8 crit = 5478 ( A DPS increase) Deleting the newly input line results in the original
DPS

thanks for any help

 

Mavanas

If you use FOK a lot on trash, have a slow dagger offhand with wound poison on. For bosses keep your fast dagger offhand with deadly on it. Thorim is a good example of a fight where you could make good use of two different daggers like that.

 

Onodrim

To my knowledge, the gem socket columns in and of themselves do not influence your total potential dps, but the columns where you input the stats of your selected gems do. As far as I can gather, the gem socket columns are simply a way of displaying whether or not the selected gems matches the sockets of the selected gear.

On a sidenote, your post could hold some relevance to the actual thread about the spreadsheets in question. That's for moderators to decide, though.

 

spookymulder

Hey thanks for the responce, yeah i figured the socket column was calculating and adding socket colors etc, So now that it is comfirmed how do i see the DPS differnce between say switching a 16 ap- 8hit gem with a 16ap-8 crit gem? Going back to my original post, Would i input every gem i use on an indevidual line, seeing as how i use at most 4 ems, I only have four gems on the sheet with how many of each color gem i have in a specific socket. Now i have a total of say 8 gems, shoud I have 8 different gems in the spreadsheet, repaeating multiple gems in order to determine the DPS value of each individual gem?

Sorry if im not making myself clear, just dont know how else to put it, Thanks again, and if this is in the wrong thread let m,e know, I just dont want to post the same thing multiple times across different threads.