Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 140

songster · 03/12/09, 6:54 AM

One or two enraged elementals on your blaze tank is easily survivable - the only time action is needed is if something goes wrong with a fire wall and you get 3+ enraged blazes up. Given that Tranq shot has a cooldown of 6 seconds, a rogue is by FAR the superior solution. It goes without saying that you should not put Anesthetic poison on your main weapons - you have plenty of time to hit a weapon swap macro while running over to the blaze pile, and again when running back to your main target. Anyone putting Anesthetic poison on their main weapon in this fight is a bad player: end of story.

As to which weapons you should swap to, this is largely irrelevant. The de-enrage is the important bit, not the minimal damage you do in the process. If you're lucky enough to have had the DKP to buy additional high-ilvl slow weapons, by all means use those. A pair of grey vendor weapons would be equally effective in context. EVERY rogue should keep a swap pair of weapons handy in a Sartharion fight, with Anesthetic poison on both. NO rogue has any excuse whatsoever for not doing so.

Krollin · 03/12/09, 10:38 AM

Rogues using FoK on Sartarion Elementals and Whelps.

Additional AoE is always a good thing, helps get them down faster.
Anesthetic Poisoned weapon useful for removing Enrage and can additionally used on a single target as well as multiple. No need to gimp your DPS during FoK, use any weapon for it because here the DPS is of secondary importance to getting rid of Enrage. Swap it out to do max DPS.
Tricks of the Trade these mobs off healers and onto the appropriate Tank.

We provide more flexibility in this encounter than any other class.

Saluna · 03/12/09, 3:08 PM

Hello everyone!

Im currently having a lot of problems sustaining a high dps when running raid with my guild. I tried to figure out what was going wrong, I read a lot of articles, checked my recount data, checked other rogues, but still.

I am a combat spec, mostly epic 25 mans geared (missing MH and OH...). All my gear is enchanted and gemmed. My build is 7/51/13 (WoW Armory Link)

I am running around 3200 DPS but nowhere close to pulling 4.5-5k like the other rogues in other guilds on my server.

My Rotation is 4Snd or 5Snd/5Rup/5SnD with using extra points to Eviscerate every now and then. On trash I use FoN with the occasional blade fury and killing spree on mobs or 4+.

Poisons : Wound on main hand, and deadly on offhand.

If anyone can give me an idea of what is going wrong, if it's only a question of weapons or bad luck. Thanks a lot!

saedo · 03/12/09, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Saluna

If anyone can give me an idea of what is going wrong, if it's only a question of weapons or bad luck. Thanks a lot!

Use dual wound poison
Not spec'ed into sword spec while using an OH sword (4/5 it with filler points)
Lack of enchant on OH sword
2 blue gems is 1 too many (prob change the chest one, pants socket bonus seems better)
20 hit on gloves changed to 44AP
Mining as a prof (well no dps benefits like other profs)

Well that's all I can really see since can't be sure exactly what you do or get as buffs in raids. So read http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/ use The Roguecraft Spreadsheet

Saluna · 03/12/09, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

Use dual wound poison
Not spec'ed into sword spec while using an OH sword (4/5 it with filler points)
Lack of enchant on OH sword
2 blue gems is 1 too many (prob change the chest one, pants socket bonus seems better)
20 hit on gloves changed to 44AP
Mining as a prof (well no dps benefits like other profs)

Well that's all I can really see since can't be sure exactly what you do or get as buffs in raids. So read http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/ use The Roguecraft Spreadsheet

-The sword is temporary since Webbed death haven't drop in a month ><
-OH will be enchanted with mongoose since it's cheap and well won't wait for the dagger to drop.
-Poison : Hum will check the spreadsheet
-Enchant will be changed, didn't realized it yet...

For the guides I already read them, thanks for the reminder anyways.
I'm trying to use the spreadsheet got some troubles understanding it and using it (doing my best to use it

)

Thanks for your help sir!

saedo · 03/12/09, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Saluna

-The sword is temporary since Webbed death haven't drop in a month ><
-OH will be enchanted with mongoose since it's cheap and well won't wait for the dagger to drop.

Well still, if you're gonna use a weapon, however temporary it is, spec into it. Or don't bother talking about maxing dps. Also Berserking is better, yes mongoose is cheaper, again not relevant if you're asking about maxing dps. Since it sounds like a month already who knows how long your bad luck will continue. I for one want a new MH, but it has never dropped in the 3-4 months, and it was a risk, but def used Berserking for its worth now due to my own luck.

Anyways, check a spreadsheet still, [Librarian's Paper Cutter] might still be better than that sword as an OH, or at least be very close.

Zephram · 03/12/09, 4:22 PM

Would it be worth dropping a little hit to get up to 44expr from 38expr? I'm at 287 hit rating/3993 AP/27.3% crit. 15/51/7 with swords. I usually have feral/hunter buffs, sunder, DK buffs (but no hysteria) but no arms/fury buffs, nor enh shammy. No Draenei.

Mostly doing 10 man stuff, and many of our regulars are on break till ulduar.

Working on Sarth+ with a lot of undergeared characters, so I'd like to minmax.

KingZer0 · 03/13/09, 4:24 AM

One question is botherin me all night long but i guss u guys can give me an answer to it

My professions are Jewelcrafting & Alchemy and i am wondering which prismatic gems i should choose. The spreadsheet and wowhead almost equalize the 54AP and the 27Agility Gem but isn`t this dependant on your critrating a little bit cause of diminishing returns?
I am a little bit above 37% Crit without Raidvuffs of course and i am considering to change my gems from agility to pure AP Gems but i am not sure about it. I can get 116 more AP from the change. Of course i would lose a little bit critical strike chance though i should still be at around 35%.

What do you suggest?

Another thing which bothers me is gemming for expertise. One guy stated in another thrad that gemming for expertise is only worth it if you can exactly hit the cap with it. Even if you are a little bit above that it would be better to go straight for AP. Is that the truth or is geming for expertise until you reach the cap definitely the right way to go?

Nerevarine · 03/13/09, 4:39 AM

Expertise gives you the best DPS upgrade if you have your hit cap. If you play combat you can reach it with Items, for Mutilate you need to take some gems into account, but can drop Quick Recovery for some better stat(e.g. Murder).

Spookydookie · 03/13/09, 7:05 AM

I recently switched to a new guild and was assigned a more senior member to mentor me. He whispered me today to give me some suggestions that he had deduced from a few WWS of this weeks fights.
Here is a link to this week's Patchwerk kill that I believe he was basing his recommendation off of. Note that since this kill I have upgraded my trinket to Mark of Norgannon from Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood.

He was very concerned with how much i was missing on my melee swings...20% missed on Patch...
I had already taken note of that in previous weeks and had changed my gems on my spreadsheet to put myself closer to the Poison hit cap but found that replacing all of my 32 ap gems with ones that gave hit was actually a dps loss.
I just chalked it up to Instant Poison scaling so well right now and assumed that the damage I would gain from less melee misses would be dwarfed by the damage i was losing on my poisons.
In short...I trusted my spreadsheet over everything else.

So his advise for me was to make this change that I had already deemed to be sub optimal, but I had a lot of trouble arguing because he obviously didn't put as much stock in (or understand) spreadsheets as I do. It DOES make sense to get some Hit Rating but...but...the spreadsheet?? ya know?

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

EDIT:I went ahead and made some of the gem changes to fit his suggestions for anyone who decides to look at my armory prof. I would still like thoughts on whether or not you think this is wise considering current IP scaling.

Zujamar · 03/13/09, 7:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nerevarine

Expertise gives you the best DPS upgrade if you have your hit cap. If you play combat you can reach it with Items, for Mutilate you need to take some gems into account, but can drop Quick Recovery for some better stat(e.g. Murder).

Actually, for Combat specs Expertise is less valuable than Agility and AP - consult the Pocket Guide or Vulajin's spreadsheet for confirmation. This is mostly due to Surprise Attacks, obviously. Agility and AP are pretty much interchangeable, so it's partly personal preference which one you go for. (Using the Roguecraft sheet and my current gear+spec, Agility is a very marginal dps increase compared to AP, but going back a couple of item upgrades, it's showing the opposite.) There has been some debate about gemming Agility for the added Dodge bonus, as well.

Iscis · 03/13/09, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Spookydookie

...
He was very concerned with how much i was missing on my melee swings...20% missed on Patch....

First, if the other Rogue in the WWS is your "mentor", he is Combat, so his hit rating is a LOT easier to reach than yours.

Second, as a Mutilate Rogue, you are not as concerned with hitting the white cap. It's way too high and way too little of our total dmg to be reasonable. You should be aiming for the poison cap (found here).

At a little over 100, you're still well below where you need to be on hit. Try to pick up some more +hit gear. Grim Toll is very nice for this. Beyond this, you should go with Rigid gems in your yellow sockets instead of the orange AP/Hit ones. you don't have to absolutely get above the number quoted in the Pocket Guide, but you should definitely be a lot closer than you are now. 7% misses from your Envenoms and 9.3% misses from your DP is a ton of missed damage for a boss fight. A missed Envenom alone can throw your entire rotation off for a good 30 seconds or more.

Finally, with regard to the spreadsheet, it is very good at deducing your theoretical max dps with the gear you have, but a single flaw in your mechanics can significantly throw off your results. Further, if something is set incorrectly (check the buffs page - that's where I usually find where I have something set wrong), it can make it appear that one piece of gear (or one gem) is better than another.

Shazzrah · 03/13/09, 6:39 PM

Hello everyone I would just like some advice on my rogues stats and what not are they where they should be because I have been trying to break 5k dps on steady fights like patchwerk, and for some reason I am stuck around 4700 at times. The way I to start off is 3 stacks of hfb, garrote then I slice and dice mut to 4-5 combo points rup mut to 4-5 combo points then evenom and I repeat am I doing it right?

saedo · 03/13/09, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shazzrah

Hello everyone I would just like some advice on my rogues stats and what not are they where they should be because I have been trying to break 5k dps on steady fights like patchwerk, and for some reason I am stuck around 4700 at times. The way I to start off is 3 stacks of hfb, garrote then I slice and dice mut to 4-5 combo points rup mut to 4-5 combo points then evenom and I repeat am I doing it right?

It sounds right. Though the "repeat" should probably mean you might get 2-3 envenoms before the next rupture.

Shazzrah · 03/13/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

It sounds right. Though the "repeat" should probably mean you might get 2-3 envenoms before the next rupture.

See the problem is I am not sure when I should envenom am I suppose to be waiting on a certain amount of DP stacks before each envenom or does it matter?