I don't know whether MN works on KT or not, but if you and all of the warriors/shaman/other rogues in your raid can't manage to kick 90% or more of the frostbolts cast by KT, then your raid leader has bigger issues than whether or not MN works. Stick with your damage poisons.

Mind Numbing never worked on Kel, besides Essence of Souls I can not remeber any boss where it worked.
But since you have probably more then one melee camp on kel, let each of them make a kick rotation. Any combination of warrior/rogue/dk/enh.shaman can interrupt 95% of all frostbolts.
And if I were you, I would not think about the right spec, before you fix your gear. S1 weapons at 80, dear god what are you thinking.

Our best attempts so far is killing Tenebron at the moment Shadron became attackable. but that is with Heroism used on the first drake. (which gives us the best results until now)
We are still working on not needing the heroism at that time.

Getting 100% on target time was impossible for melee so far because for some odd reason, the fissures seem to target us like hell (sometimes even 2 fissures right next to each other) and we still lose dps in fissures now and then (that is getting better though)
I did have trouble with the fissure in our first few attempt because I couldn't see them (adjusting spell detail did help though) but right now I don't have trouble with it anymore.
My main concern at this moment is maximizing time on target and maximizing dps there.


As for the tank : maybe he can stand somewhere else. He normally starts at the south side, at the spot between the lava waves when they come from the south (left).
For me it looks like we are losing 3-5 seconds there, as the drake has got to move towards his spot (as he lands to the north), and when there is a lava wave from the north, we lose even more time with moving in.

Any thoughts about this?

As for total DPS maybe being not enough : what is a guideline in order of dps to get a kill with reasonable difficulty?
(ie. 3k/person average, or more like 4k?)

There's good thread full of sound advice and different tactics at Public Discussion.

As for the dps, 3k average should be ok, our last 3d 25man shows me on anesthetic duty.

Another thing that just struck me while looking at Len's report: try with less healers if it's possible. In Len's report they had 8 healers and 43000 raid dps, our last logged kill shows us with 6 healers and 52000 raid dps. (And I reckon it can be done pretty easily with 5 healers, since two of ours had one disconnect after another that night - that's where those wipes came from)

Regarding anesthetic: our log shows me with ap on my oh, but I've since switched to a weapon switch + FoK macro with dual anesthetic on two extra weapons, because it just makes a lot more sense. There is no reason losing personal dps over the possible need to derage blazes when you can just hit your macro while making your way to the enraged blazes. (Plural because if it's just one: let the hunters deal with it)

I'm relatively certain that there is nothing set wrong on my spreadsheet. When i did the initial check to find out if gemming for hit would be an upgrade, I tested both gem set-ups with no buffs (aside from my own...food, flask, etc) and then again with the buffs that I would be getting in the raid.
In both cases gemming for ANY Hit Rating (be it with +16hit or +8hit/+16ap) was a negative change in my projected damage.

I noted your mention of the poison misses and took that into consideration with my test of the gems, but the envenom "misses" were actually dodges/parries so have no relevance to my initial question.

I've noticed (on the spreadsheet once again) that my benefit from hit drops off steeply after I gem over the special cap in pretty much every buff situation...so I am once again left with my original question...
should i be trusting the spreadsheet over common sense and/or the pocket guide?

Also, no the other rogue in that run was not my mentor but that's irrelevant. I also don't see how it's easier for a combat rogue to get hit rating as you claim.

The spreadsheet is a good guide to how you should be gearing, you can trust it alright.

Couple of points though: your hit, while low, is not disastrously so as long as you are using +40 hit rating food and are getting Misery + Draenei hit bonus.

Your weapons are a cause for concern: unless you have better you should get an LPC and use that in your OH, switch Omen of Ruin to you MH and not use Twilight Mist. (I am assuming that your Armory is showing the gear you use in Raids here though). You should be using at least Mongoose on them and not +50 AP too. Berserker or Accuracy on either of those weapons would be a waste with 3.1 coming up.

My apologies on the hit rating for Combat comment. I had expertise on the brain. Let's just forget that part.

If your poisons are being dodged that much, it is an indicator that you need to up your expertise, but as you said, that was not your original question. (The parries would be greatly reduced by working to get behind your target more often, but that's often easier said than done on some bosses.)

Specifically for the hit issue, the value will drop off after you reach the specials threshold, and again after the poison cap. And buffs will work in your favor. With ~100 hit, plus 40 from food, Heroic Presence and Misery/ImpFF, you're going to be about 70 under the poison cap. It's not huge, but I would think it would be noticable.

When it's all said and done, however, the question remains: If you are getting conflicting information between the spreadsheet and the Pocket Guide, trust your experience. If your logs show you are getting more dps by gemming AP instead of trying to reach the poison hit cap, then gem AP. (Or check out expertise.) As all of the tools and guides here are written to be somewhat generic, your particular gear, talents, rotation, etc may mean some of these tools don't agree with each other or your experience 100% of the time. And if you're going to trust one of these tools over the others, I would go with the spreadsheet. By inputting your specific gear, talents, etc into the spreadsheet, it has a decided advantage over the more generic Pocket Guide.


Edit: I just looked again and you're up to almost 180 base +hit. In that case, food plus raid buffs will push you over the poison cap. I imagine you'll have fewer comments from your mentor now. Hopefully you'll see an improvement in you dps, too. (Something we all strive towards.)

Forgive me for I have been away for a bit - with the looks of new PPM on poisons am I wrong to assume mutilate will be switching to slow MH/fast OH?

If you get to choose from weapons with the same dps then yes Slow/Fast will be prefered. But keep in mind that if you got two fast daggers and both got higher dps than your current slow mainhand, it might be worth using dual fast. Vice versa can ofcourse be said about a slow offhand. But that is what we got spreadsheets to calculate for us.

Yes. Raid buffs make anything done on a target dummy worthless. IP MH, DP OH. This makes IP proc more due to extra procs from finishers.