That seems quite unlikely to me. The 2pc bonus is about 3.85% haste (125.51 haste rating) when SnD is up, and we can assume it's always up for any competent rogue, so we can just model it as 3.85% haste. I can't see any conditions under which the 2pc would produce +107 DPS and 125 haste rating wouldn't. If anyone has any insights as to why the 2pc shouldn't be treated like 3.85% haste, I'd love to understand.

Regarding the spreadsheet, another rogue in my guild noticed was that for combat builds, the AToL was reading as producing higher DPS than the Meteorite Whetstone. That seems extremely unlikely to me. At 80, the AToL is 3.16% crit for 10 sec. With a paper cutter and assuming the hit cap (a generous assumption at this point!), you'll have an energy generation rate of about 14.25 energy/sec, which is at least 14 sec per 5-point cycle. That gets you 71% uptime on AToL, resulting in an effective flat 2.2% crit. That's about 161.5 EP.

Meanwhile, the Meteorite Whetstone produces 1.61% flat crit and 444 haste for 10/45 sec, or about 98.66 flat haste rating, resulting in a total EP for the item of 256.53

Download the updated spreadsheet.

I don't post often, choosing instead to try to intelligently parse conversation on these forums. I'm trying to do an objective analysis of new abilities just as an exercise in re-versing myself since the last time I was a raiding rogue was in Naxxaramas with 39 other people. I've searched the forums before posting this. Though I know that the answer must be there somewhere, this seemed like an easier way to arrive at an answer despite my efforts to avoid asking what feels like a silly question.

My question:

What is a reasonable assumption for a boss's mitigation of physical DPS to be? This can be extrapolated to be asking what an average 83 boss armor value would be. Assuming full armor debuff, what kind of % can I subtract from my raw eviscerate calculation (for example).

Don't extrapolate too much, there. I'm a Rupture man, myself, but I'm just trying to objectively understand everything again.

Thanks for your time!

It seems logical to try to manage your DP stack based on AP procs. When you proc double mongoose/berserking and MoT, Envenom to eat the current stack and increase your % to apply a new one quickly.

I'm pretty sure all the Northrend bosses have tested out to about 13k armor. That's 46% without any modifiers.

After Sunder and Faerie Fire, that drops to about 7835 AC, which is a 33% damage reduction.

The AP coefficient of Deadly Poison is recalculated each time it procs; if it refreshes at 5 stack, the AP coefficient will change.

The only cap that you need (as in, change gems) is 132, which, honestly, has been said about a thousand times in this thread. There are many reasons why hit isn't as great of a stat now: Windfury Totem no longer relies on you not missing (which was by far the biggest advantage of hit), poisons scaling with AP, increase in damage from specials and finishers, and talents such as Prey on the Weak and Focused Attacks.

You don't even need that, just be aware of it, and know hit has a bit more value below certain caps.

does anybody know if the damage bonus on tricks of the trade stacks?

also does anybody know if a rogue is getting extra threat from either misdirect or another rogues tricks of the trade, if that threat is also redirected by tricks of the trade?

thx

You cant re-direct threat like that..

If someone used TotT on you, and you used it on someone else, you would need to deal more damage than the first rogue, or youre gonna end up dead.

What Glyphs do you guys normally use for Combat? I've been using SS/BF/SnD. amidoinitwrong?

What gems should a HaT rogue be using? Vulajin's spreadsheet is claiming AP is still the best, but I am unable to input my actual rotation - something like Xs/Yr/Ze/Ze/Ze/Ze/Yr/Ze/Ze/Xs isn't exactly an option :p

Is AP still the best with all those eviscerates?

Though HaT spec isn't advisable for raiding (leveling solo actually went okay-ish here), your glyphs should be SnD, Rupture and Evisc. SnD and Rupture to get longer cycles of those, allowing you to squeeze in more Eviscerates, which you preferrably want to proc a next combopoint as well, so hence that glyph.

If you really don't need another combopoint coming in because you're in a fantastic group, then you could consider the Preperation glyph or some other utility glyph instead of the Eviscerate one.

For gems you'll want to cap expertise and reach the yellowcap, after that it's Agi gems unless (meta)socket bonusses are too good to pass up. Whether +hit ot +crit for yellow sockets is better above the yellowcap is debatable, I'd follow the Combat values then, Combat gains DPS from Prey on the Weak, while HaT gains CP's, and thus DPS from HaT. You're not the biggest source of CP's yourself if your group is right, but it's not something to neglect either.

Yes, I already have those glyphs. I was asking about gemming.

My guild has killed 3-drake Sartharion and I do respectable dps. Still in the dark about how to gem, though, considering 25%+ of my damage is Eviscerate.

Apologies, reread your question and updated my answer when I saw I read it wrong

In short: gem as combat spec, except that the hit and especially crit gems will have slightly different values. But Agi will be a definite winner.

Expertise is also much higher value for HaT builds, since finishers can be dodged and every time they're dodged you run the risk of wasting combo points, which is the whole purpose of having the spec in the first place.

Does anyone happen to know if spec’ing Close Quarters Combat and Sword Specialization and wielding a fist in the main and a sword in the offhand if the sword proc in the offhand affects the main hand?

Sword Specialization procs always trigger a MH attack, whatever the type of weapon in that hand might be.

My friend, using fist/sword with 5/5 cqc and 4/5 sword spec, ran 3 heroics the other night - not resetting Recount. This to check the whole 'does oh sword procs trigger mh swings' anymore issue. He found that it doesn't anymore, oh procs does in fact - trigger oh swings. He deduced this from the damage range of the sword spec swings he had gotten, being similar to his normal oh swings.

I've tried finding some blue/official sources on this, but I can't. All I find is a lot of other people saying the same thing, so looks like it's nerfed.

One thing I am noticing has been left out in the many pages so far is talk about how Combat Potency isn't much of a concern for pushing the White Hit Cap. Back in TBC getting to that number of 24% (or 364 hit rating) was for two reasons: White damage was a good source of our DPS and to get the Combat Potency numbers up. I am wondering if we would gain more gemming for hit as much as we can to increase potency is something to be taken into consideration, rather then focusing just on that poison cap that so many people in this thread have been stating?

OnTheHissay: As stated before, e.g. this post, Recount doesn't handle sword spec procs correctly, making your friend's findings flawed. Heck, I've even had Thorns damage counted for sword spec.

I remember seeing Aldriana making a rough estimate about the "value" of each talent. But they were from a previous build, and I don't think they are still up-to-date, sadly.

I'm trying to build a not totally optimal build, with between 1 to 3 talent point removed from the standard DPS ones, to be put in Deadly Brew (at least one) and maybe Fleet Footed, and I would like to be relatively sure about which talents are adding the less DPS, so that they are the first to go.

More specifically, I'm wondering if I should remove points from Ruthlessness, Lethality, Seal Fate, TtT or Blood Splatter.