Because putting Mongoose on the mainhand does make it proc more often.

Both Berserking and Mongoose are PPM mechanics and even though your offhand hits more often, it should not proc any more times in a given period (that's what PPM means). Specials though, can also trigger weapon procs. Since specials originate from your mainhand, the enchant in your mainhand will actually proc more often than the one in your offhand when both are PPM mechanics.

Agility's main source of diminishing returns comes as you start approaching (and passing) the crit cap. At that point the value of crit rating and agility are both lessened.

I have just received [Hellscream Slicer] last night and have run into a wall on what to do with my spec decision. I am currently a mutilate rogue with [Sinister Revenge] and [Murder].

I have in my possession what I would assume to be sub-par OH's for combat which are: [Peacekeeper Blade], [Hatestrike], [Grasscutter], [Axe of the Sen'jin Protector], and my two previously listed daggers.

So what I am really trying to ask is if any of the OH's I have are viable enough to switch to combat or should I just stay mutilate until a better OH (axe/sword) comes into my possession.

I have tried to figure this out myself by using a combination of the spreadsheets on the site, but have been unable to come up with a conclusive answer. So any opinions and/or assistance would be much appreciated. If there is more information I could provide please let me know.

According to Aldriana's and Latito's recent testing the ppm mechanic of Berserking and Mongoose has changed sometime between now and previous tests. In short, now chance to proc is fixed per landed attack based on unhasted weapon speed, so stacking haste actually increases the number of procs in any given minute. Since Mongoose also procs 2% haste for 15 seconds, it increases the chance of the other hand's enchant proccing, whether there is Mongoose or Berserking on it. So technically Milikin is right in that having mongoose on the offhand increases the uptime of berserking on the mainhand. So it's not an entirely crazy idea. However, the reason people do not do that yet is because the value of mongoose on the offhand is inferior enough to the value of berserking on the offhand so that the overall dps is lower in the mixed combination.

Some testing indicates though that putting double mongoose will be the enchanting of choice as EP of agility goes up and people switch to double wound poison with 18/51/2 spec (berserking/mongoose mixed combo does not produce a statistically different result than double mongoose in that setup).

My main thought in what I wrote was the specials would increase the uptime of Mongoose in the mainhand which would then increase the uptime of Berserking from the offhand through the added haste (which doesn't have the same synergy when switched). After thinking about it some more it becomes obvious to me that the increased uptime from special attack procs is likely to be significantly greater then the increased uptime gained form 2% haste which means that in a mixed enchant situation, you'd want the stronger enchant in your mainhand (whichever that may be).

So, two points to keep in mind:

First, the increase in uptime through Mongoose haste is fairly minimal. I mean, it's 2% haste with ~37% uptime from an OH weapon - that's less than 1% average-case haste, which is thus going to increase your proc uptime by something on the order of tenths of a percent. And since Berserking provides a 400 AP benefit while up, an increase in uptime by .1% is going to increase the EP value of the enchant by .4 EP. As such: there is a synergy there, but it's very week and usually dwarfed by other effects. So I'm not sure how much time it's worth spending worrying about it.

Second, yes, an OH Mongoose enchant may increase the uptime of a MH Berserking - but it would *also* increase the uptime of a MH Mongoose. That is, when you're at the gear level that allows Mongoose to pass Berserking on the OH, you tend to be more or less at the gear level where it does on the other hand as well. Hence, while there may be narrow windows of time when using mixed weapon enchants results in a trivial DPS boost, in general it will be the case that either "Berserking is better in general" or "Mongoose is better in general". At present gear level, it will usually be the former, but as gear improves the latter will start to appear as well.

Simple Question : It seems, while using the dps spreadsheet, that evi-only build is better in combat than with rupture with T8-4 bonus NOT activated, am I getting wrong with the spreadsheet ? (my stuff is mainly T8)

Edit : I ask this question because I thought this assumption was clearly true only with BIS T9 gear and ArPen maximised.

Simple question: Has any research been done to quantify the equivalency values of the orc racial for axes/fists, per hand? My understanding is that the expertise applies on the weapon itself only, and therefore cannot be weighted the same as straight expertise on any other piece of gear (unless of course you have an axe or fist in both hands). I am trying to identify the breakpoint at which an axe or fist with lesser stat benefit exceeds a weapon lacking the racial bonus in performance.

I would assume the mainhand benefit is significantly more than the offhand, but offhand expertise is certainly not irrelevant.

Looking at your armory profile - you do not have t8-4 bonus activated. You are only using three pieces of tier 8. You do not need BIS T9 for evis-only to be better. Use the spreadsheet to figure out what is best for you. Try the evis glyph and build... then try the rupture glyph and build.

The spreadsheet shows in my current armory profile that evis-only is best for me... and I do not even come close to having BIS T9 or will I ever. I do not have t8-4 bonus either though. That is way Evis-Only is coming out on top, plus my ArPen is capped; slightly over cap at the moment.

But the point is... just because you aren't ArPen capped and you don't have BIS T9... don't think Evis-Only isn't better for you. Use the spreadsheet to figure that out.

I'm trying to figure out if the [Mark of Supremacy] is a worthwhile way to spend 50 badges as an upgrade from [Pyrite Infuser]. Problem is that I'm getting contradictory data.

My own napkin math shows that the Mark should be an upgrade. Not a massive upgrade, but decent enough to justify it. To be certain, however, I ran the numbers on Aldriana's most recent spreadsheet and I was surprised to see that the Mark would give me a dps loss.

I've poked around the forums and can't find a lot of chat about the Mark. Has anyone else put these two trinks head to head? Would appreciate any comments and ty.

Mark has ~16.6% uptime on the AP buff, where as Pyrite has ~22.2%. So basically, its 128 hit ~170 ap for the Mark and 95 hit ~274 ap for the Infuser. Simplified, its 33 hit versus 104 ap. Your hit rating would have to be incredibly low for that little hit to benefit you more than that much ap.

Where are you getting 22.2% uptime for Pyrite? That implies a proc every 45 seconds which seems way off. I've tested the Pyrite Infuser 3 times today - each time over a 10 minute span - and using Proculas as a back up to my own data. The procula info was pretty much bang on with my own and provided the following ( averaged over the 3 tests ):

> Duration of test: 10 mins
> Procs during that time: 9
> PPM: 0.91
> Uptime: 14.72%

Now I know that the Pyrite Infuser procs off crits, but it's worth noting that my crit rate stands at 42.77% and I used all my specials throughout the testing to give it the best chance of a quick proc ( including rupture with a 4 piece terrorblade set for the rupture crits ). So the trink isn't waiting much longer during my test than it would in a raid situation with extra buffs.

I've seen various comments for Pyrite ranging from your 45 seconds, to 55 seconds when it first came out, to my own testing today which saw it closer to the 1.05+ mark. Perhaps the internal cd has been adjusted on it ... but 45 seconds is definitely off from what I can see.

So I've looked and everyone seems to have a different opinion. What is suppose to be better for Mutilate 3.2.2 AP or AGI? With the AP change to Envenom and all. I suppose I have 2 questions, T8 BiS and T9 BiS. I'd imagine T9 would be AP and T8 AGI but I'm not sure if my numbers are correct.

Thanks in advance

I have not done that calculation honestly, but you mentioned your numbers. Did you try some sort of analysis?

As far as i know, pyrite is correctly modeled same way as mirror, at 50 sec cooldown. So if you are sure of something else, do share your combat log

You're right I was mistaking its proc type with the chance on melee damage type. The infuser should have an uptime around 17-18% depending on gear. That means it will proc every 57 seconds or so. Its 33 hit versus ~47ap. At that point it depends on how valuable hit is for you, in my gear it comes up a little bit short.

I'll run my tests again today using a combatlog and will post the link in this post as an edit.
It's very possible that the internal CD is still 50 seconds and that it is simply the "chance on crit" that adds all the extra time. I believe it is a 10% chance on crit, but I'm not 100% on that so please correct me if I'm wrong.


EDIT:
Ran 10 a new 10 min test using the Pyrite Infuser again today ( and also one with the Mark of Supremacy ) just to compare. The Mark provided better burst initially for sure, and slightly better dps over the long term too. Was it worth 50 badges? Maybe. Here are the reports:

Pyrite Infuser:
Wow Web Stats

Mark of Supremacy:
Wow Web Stats

Uptime for the Infuser was 17% using a combat log ( although Proculas only showed 14.33% which may be slightly more accurate since typing combat log on and off is not an exactly science ). This puts it closer to the 1 minute mark for "actual" proc versus the internal cd. It may drop a bit from raid buffs boosting crit, but I doubt it would be enought to even get it below 55 seconds.

If you look at the combat log closely, the intervals between pyrite infuser procs were as low as 51 seconds, so even though average delay was quite long, it cannot disprove the current hypothesis that the trinket has 50 second internal cooldown. Here are the delays between procs and the times at which each proc occured:

67.077 (0:00'17.172)
62.345 (0:02'16.419)
50.984 (0:03'07.403)
74.739 (0:04'22.142)
56.402 (0:05'18.544)
60.727 (0:06'19.271)
69.767 (0:07'29.038)
64.109 (0:08'33.147)
54.675 (0:09'27.822)

In a raid environment your crit rate is higher due to various buffs and debuffs, also you attack more frequently due to higher haste and higher energy regen, so the delays between when the internal cooldown expires and when you crit again will be lower.

Actually, even in a raid environment with buffs the Infuser seems to fluctuate between about 16% and 19%. Here are a couple of logs from different fights in different raid compositions. The problem being ... even with added haste and crit, you still have to contend with "chance on crit". And if the chance on crit is only 10% ( my understanding ) ... then you are realling only buffing that 10% chance and there is no way it will bring your average proc down from 62.314 ( average from my dummy test above ) to 51 seconds or close .

Ignis Log @ 19%:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Koralon Log @ 16%:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

I would not expect a trinket with 50 second cooldown that procs from criticals to proc every 51 seconds. I do want to point out that 19% on Ignis is equivalent to proccing every 10/0.19=52.6 seconds. Based on the simsheet, in a raid situation in 3.1 BiS gear, combat can do close to 1.82 crits per second (white+specials). That's a crit every 0.55 seconds. With 10% chance to proc from a crit, you should expect on average a 5.5 second delay, so on average the trinket at that level of gear will proc every 55.5 seconds, which is equivalent to about 18% uptime.

This might have been answered before but i could not find a answer with the search function. Has there been any theorycrafting on Killing Spree weapon swapping? There is the option of swapping to slow offhand before using KS, just after using KS or not at all. I started using a KS macro that equips a slow (2.7) offhand instead of my fast dagger (1.4) and KS damage went up significantly, tho i usually lose my deadly poison stack as my 2nd offhand will have wound poison on. Also it is a bit tricky to find out how much damage got lost to the reset of the swing timer. Would be also interesting to know if the weapon swap resets swing timers for both hands or only the affected one.

All proc-based/internal-cooldown based math aside, you may be able to look at Mark as an upgrade simply because you get to choose when it procs (after two minutes, of course) as opposed to it proccing on its own. Regardless of whether or not you need the hit rating, things proc'ing in tandem can give you a dps boost that may outshine whatever slight differences the two pieces have in a non-situational, mathematical setting. It will clearly depend on the boss, how good you are about using cooldowns, and a slew of other factors; when I checked your armory, I saw you currently specced into and geared for mutilate, which would benefit less from the idea I just mentioned. Your combat spec, however, loves it when you stack cooldowns on top of each other, especially during Killing Spree. Since Killing Spree boosts all damage done by 20%, you can (simply put; the actual math is much more complicated) look at it as though all other cooldowns you pop during a killing spree are 20% more effective, as long as they aren't cooldowns that will serve no purpose during a Killing Spree (Adrenaline Rush). I apologize that most of this theory regards the combat spec; I have limited familiarity with mutilate at this point.

So from that standpoint, I guess my conclusive opinion is (like many things with theorycraft), "It depends."

If you just finished levelling him, why are you using lower rank poisons?