• Neto-

While it may seem like hit rating is very important for Combat Potency, it really is not as much as you would think.

With 0 hit rating and no Precision, your offhand will miss 28% of the time - but it will not 72% of the time. For comparison, at maxed hit (and expertise) and with a 0.8 speed OH, 20% of your swings will activate Potency. At 9% hit (and maxed expertise), 16.2% of your swings will activate Potency. With maxed hit, in 20 seconds, your OH will give you, on average, 5 Potency procs, or 75 energy, or 3.75 energy per second. At 9% hit, you will get, on average, 4 Potency procs, or 3 energy per second. But considering we get 10 energy per second, we're comparing 13.75 eps to 13 eps. So in reality, going from 13 to 13.75 is a gain of only 5.77% more energy. That's a little more than half a point of Vitality.

Combat Potency definitely benefits from hit, but not as much as you would think, and especially now that Windfury no longer scales quadratically with hit, and we have talents such as Prey on the Weak, and poisons scale with Attack Power, our other stats gain some value. Also, the spreadsheet and Aldriana's calculations most certainly take the eps increase from Combat Potency and hit synergy into account.

 

• Ryazan

I wonder is this obvious fact but doesn't it seem that expertise "cap" is reached quite fast with current itemization?
Currently I'm raiding as mutilate and only with four items, my expertise is already 23. If I were combat, I would already be waaaay pass the 132 expertise rating. I'm thinking will this lead to passing on some items just because they have expertise on them and I would be already be pass the mark. Any thoughts on this one?

 

• Neto-

Yes, it is. It's also incredibly annoying. There really is nothing we can do, other than not wear Expertise gear once we're capped, though. But it's a little silly how Chestguard of the Recluse and our T7.25 helm, which are best in slots, already expertise cap you if you are Combat. I'm guessing this is collateral damage of sharing gear with Druids.

 

drumbum

Agreed. It's the reverse situation that plagued cat druids at level 70. Much of the leather gear at level 70 had gobs of hit rating on it, and cat druids only needed 9% to cap. The difference though is this is worse, because even cat druids don't need more than 6.5% expertise, and expertise has a diminished value for bear druids past the 6.5% mark anyway.

One thing that Blizzard could do to help with the situation (somewhat) is to ensure that the rogue-specific tier raid sets don't have expertise on them. For example, replacing the expertise rating from [Valorous Bonescythe Helmet] and [Heroes' Bonescythe Helmet] with hit rating would allow more expertise to be worn on the non-tier slots.

 

Demi9OD

TtT < Lethality < Blood Spatter in terms of DPS.

While Ruthlessness and Seal fate don't score very well on the sheet, I find maxing them necessary to keep up reliable rotations.

 

Leto

It's easy to hit the expertise cap if you pick up items with lots of expertise... there are a lot of really good items out there with no expertise, and a lot of good items with tons, so it adds flexibility in my opinion. I definitely wouldn't say there's too much expertise on the items available.

If you're combat, you can skip chest of the recluse, pick up leggings of the honored or frosted adroit gloves, and be perfectly fine at not capping expertise with your other non set items.

Rogue at heart.

 

tiddly

What is the best enchant at the moment, I know beserking is good etc

Is the proc about the same as Mongoose?

Has anyone tested the icebreaker enchant, as this is a damage proc I am guessing it would mean that the extra armour of bosses wouldn't affect it? What DPS does it provide in comparison to AP , Beserking or Mongoose etc?

 

Rosethorn

Berserking is hands down the best DPS enchant for weaps at the moment. It also looks quite cool imo.

Sukoden - "I refuse to play druid. In the end you get too many and you end up with a frickin zoo."

 

notthatnerfed

any good modeling of darkmoon trinkets? is there the usual internal CD on undeath one?

 

Munstrom

According to multiple spreadsheets and calculating EP weights attack power gems come out as higher dps than agility or even ap and hit gems. My question is why do rogues in supposedly top guilds still socket agility or ap and hit instead of attack power gems which according to sheets, would be a higher dps increase?

 

onkl

Being in a top guild doesn't make you smarter. This could also be a decision based on price and availability.

 

• Feist-Mok

I can't speak for all rogues, but I know in my case, it comes down partly to availability. My gear setup is changing so frequently right now (1-2 items /day), and gems are in such short supply now (100g+ for ANY blue gem, and most of the ones for sale have already been cut because the JC wants the skillup), that it's kind of silly to worry about a 8-10 ep difference over my entire gearset when the relative stat values are going to change within the week anyway. My plan at least, amounts to letting things settle down a bit, then putting in some real time, with a (hopefully significantly updated and bugfixed) spreadsheet and regemming everything 'properly' once and for all.

 

Munstrom

No I know it doesn't make you smarter, I even pointed out to one of them that he was making a mistake with his gearing. I suppose it is probably a price based decision. Thanks for clarifying.

 

MasterDinadan

Yes, definitely. I set up my Pawn scale to ignore expertise entirely, and assume poison hit cap. Then I added to more scales to reflect the value of expertise only, and the additional value of hit under the poison cap. I make almost all of my gear choices based on the first scale (ignoring expertise entirely). If, after I put on my best gear according to that scale, I find that my hit or expertise isn't capped, then I'll start looking at the extra hit or expertise scales and see if any of the gear I'm not wearing will surpass the gear I am wearing. Sometimes I have to decide which pieces to replace to reach the cap, but the scales help out with that.

But expertise capping is definitely an issue. I put on all of my gear just going by my first scale (which ignores expertise entirely) and I still find myself capping as combat. There's actually a trinket in the game that has a proc for 200 something expertise rating for a limited duration. What on earth was Blizz thinking with that one? =P

 

• Feist-Mok

That tanks like threat trinkets?

 

icjaker

I've been wondering about haste maxing out for a while. My questions are:

#1 Does haste have a cap?
#2 Should I be popping my Potion of Speed WITH Bloodlust? Or should I be using them independently?

Whenever I hear the call for Bloodlust go off I usually pop EVERYTHING.

 

◊ chalon

Popping everything when Bloodlust goes up is generally a smart decision.

 

• Feist-Mok

Saving AR until the other cooldowns have passed might be wise however to avoid energy capping.

 

Misch

I stumbled upon this thread on the forums:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Master Poisoner +15% crit

Can anyone confirm if Master Poisoner is that bugged? I mean, damn...

 

PSGarak

It's pretty well verified by this point. According to the Buggy Mechanics thread, one person has seen it hotfixed on their realm. YMMV, but expect it to be gone by tomorrow at the latest.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

dplafoll

Has anyone worked out if it's worth dropping a point somewhere in the 51/13/7 mutilate build to grab Vigor if you use the Glyph of Vigor(along with rupture and S&D)? If so, where would be the best place to take that point? Perhaps from CQC or TtT? If I take one out of QCQ, is it then worth taking the other two out and putting them into Improved S&D?

 

◊ chalon

Personally I think Vigor, even glyphed, is a waste in a PvE build. But others disagree.

 

Metaskie

Why take imp SnD? Itll constantly be refreshed anyway due to CttC, wouldnt it?

 

dplafoll

Yes, it would. I've just been finding myself using <4 CP finishers to refresh S&D and thought with one or two points in Imp S&D(and perhaps necessarily in conjunction with glyphed Vigor) I'd be able to get up to 4-5 CPs for envenom before S&D is up. I also see it helping to make it easier to keep HfB up, and give more time to keep up my un-glyphed Rupture(my server's inscriptionists don't have the glyph yet).
Disclaimer: I'm not raiding yet, this is all 5-man experience, and I just went mutilate for the first time when I hit 80.

 

sephfiroth

The problem is the following:

I've noticed that often times, with 2/2 SnD and Glyph, you can complete an entire cycle ( 5r/5e ) with nearly 14-15s remaining on SnD. At which point, youre pooling energy waiting for DP to stack again, I've noticed as my gear gets better, I can manage a 5r/5e/5e cycle without HfB and SnD falling off. At the same time, keeping DP stacks higher. I mostly attribute this to gear improvements and it scaling with Focused Attacks. Maybe a week ago when I was rolling with mostly blues/greens, I couldnt maintain a 5r/5e^2, but only 5r/5e/2-4e, my HfB/SnD was almost always on the verge of falling off.

Conversely, you could spec 0/2 SnD with only the glyph, and maintain a 5r/5e constant rotation.

Now, I've tested both and gained about 200 DPS out of it compared to 1/2 or 0/2 SnD.

The Vigor glyph along with the 1 point you take out of CQC and invest into Vigor itself, provides more gains than 1% crit imo.

It just simply allows longer rotations while letting DP stack faster after Envenoms. I am hoping that as my gear improves even more, that I will be able to generate enough energy through Focused attacks that I can pull a 5r/5e^2 cycle with only 1 point in SnD. I highly doubt that Crit and Hit will ever reach points high enough to warrant 0/2 SnD. With Vigor investments, and SnD investments, I will always have energy on hand that I can refresh HfB at the very last moment, compared to having to spam the HfB key, praying I get enough energy to keep it up. Also useful for the encounters where you lose control of your character, or have to go thru some stupid periods of stun. I have enough energy to refresh HfB/SnD and throw a Rupture up immediately.

Perhaps my thinking is flawed, or im missing a key factor, If so, please give me your insight.