Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 164

Arkhangel-Nord · 04/13/09, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Maestroquark

Unless you are raiding at 70, which I doubt at this point, I would highly advice not using a HaT spec.

Well, I don't have Wrath, so I'm doing a lot of dungeons and raids to get some gear. I decided upon 7-0-54. Anyone have opinions on this build? It's as creative as I'd like to get, since I've always been 0-0-61. Well, it's also mostly for doing PVP, as well...

Zelkiiro · 04/13/09, 6:41 PM

I'm sure it's been asked to death, but with the changes to 3.1 Assassination, which of these weapon sets would be better for PvE DPS?

[Librarian's Paper Cutter] x2
or
[Anarchy][Knife of Incision]

Or in general: Will Slow/Slow, Slow/Fast, or Fast/Fast be the end-all-be-all for Mutilate in the future?

Feriarius · 04/13/09, 9:52 PM

Speccing combat after weeks of mutilate, I'm not sure if I'm getting the rotation right. Granted my experiences have all been on test dummies, so in a raid situation I'm sure CP generation will be faster, but I'm having a hard time keeping up rupture. Is there more downtime of rupture for combat than the near 100% uptime for mutilate?

I've tried 3s/5r/5e and had a substantial downtime of rupture, a little bit less of the downtime running 2s/5r/4e.

Edit: Zelkiiro - just a while ago on the PTR running cookie mutilate with master poisoner, over 3.5 million damage for each I got 3116 dps with WD/WD and 3200 dps with Anarchy/WD. So my evidence supports slow/fast and the idea that with PPM poisons slow MH will be better.

campiona · 04/13/09, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Feriarius

I've tried 3s/5r/5e and had a substantial downtime of rupture, a little bit less of the downtime running 2s/5r/4e.

Try eliminating Eviscerate/Envenom from the cycle... or using it only when SnD has +12 ticks left, and Rupture has +6 ticks...

I won't lie -- and this may betray the fact that I am a crappy newb, but I often times get Rupture up with 1 to 3 CPs... just as long as its active... ya know?

Good luck!

lurid · 04/14/09, 12:59 AM

So has there been any real determination on whether 51/13/7 or 51/18/2 will be better for mutilate come tommorrow? The later would probably help smooth out the rotation, but the energy gain from RS makes me hesitant to believe it. I'm not too confident in the spreadsheets ATM because they don't always take into account how smoothing out rotations improves DPS and I'm wondering if anyone here has tested this on the PTR?

evoslayer · 04/14/09, 5:03 AM

I was wondering what kind of dps other rogues could get on target dummies (I cant consistently break 2550 which I thought seemed low)

In order to find out about other people's numbers I did a google search and I came across the idea on some forum of using shiv at 4 cps in a mutilate cycle.

Now I'm pretty sure that is a DPS loss especially with the change to shiv in the patch, but I figured I would ask anyway, is that possibly a good idea?

Tinwhisker · 04/14/09, 8:52 AM

Originally Posted by evoslayer

In order to find out about other people's numbers I did a google search and I came across the idea on some forum of using shiv at 4 cps in a mutilate cycle.

Now I'm pretty sure that is a DPS loss especially with the change to shiv in the patch, but I figured I would ask anyway, is that possibly a good idea?

I'm not going to dig up the posts with the math but the answer is no. Shiv should not be used in a PvE setting; it was meant to be a utility move for PvP and remains as such.

Kanan · 04/14/09, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Thargood

I sort of agree, in that I don't think the usual IP/DP/envenom raid spec works very well when undergeared. But there are other specs that work better in those low gear situations.

When I first hit 80 I was not trying to run the usual Mutilate raid spec, it always underwhelmed me at that gear level. Instead I levelled to 80 and did heroics for a while using an eviscerate spec with dual wound poison. This always felt like it worked a lot better. In late november I started hitting heroics in quest blues, I think I started out at around 1700-1800 dps on heroic bosses and went up from there, and was pretty much always top dps in any group at that time. But trying a IP/DP/envenom spec always felt horrible comparatively until I started reaching about 2200-2300 dps on heroic boss fights. It was around then that the usual raid spec finally started to feel that it was working better.

So, Kanan, I might recommend to you that you try fiddling with your mutilate spec to support eviscerate/WP/WP for a while until you gear up more from heroics. Instead of putting points in improved poisons, put them into improved eviscerate and get the evis glyph. Also, at this point you don't need to go all out for dps. Make sure you stick 1 or even 2 points into Improved SnD, it just makes it a whole lot easier to keep SnD up while you're getting used to the spec.

I was kind of thinking along the same lines, but I took it a step further, and went back to Combat. So, last night, I ran H CoS and did see an improvement. Unfortunately, I didn't break out my boss DPS, but I'm sure it was higher. On trash, I was doing ~1300... but then again, that's a lot of FoK on weak zombies. Regardless, I'm running WP/WP/Evis. I will give that some time, then go back and see how Mutilate goes after some Heroic gear. After all, being that Assassination is a viable raid spec, and arguably, THE spec, I do need to be comfortable with it.

Guntz · 04/14/09, 12:19 PM

I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5

I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?

Reynus · 04/14/09, 1:19 PM

Any consensus on [dropping the 2 points Opportunity and only dropping 1 point in Turn the Tables] versus [dropping all 3 points in TtT] - This is for freeing up points to go 3/3 in Master Poisoner.

Sarah · 04/14/09, 1:20 PM

I had a quick question regarding Envenom and its buff.

After casting Envenom and you cast Fan of Knives while the Envenom buff is up, does it give increased instant/deadly poison proc chances on all targets hit? -- I know there is no reason it shouldn't do this, but to me it would seem rather imbalanced on some fights (i.e. Sartharion with adds), and was wondering if anyone has done any testing to confirm that it actually works.

Okuno · 04/14/09, 2:53 PM

I see it all the time but whats the value of :

Agility versus AP?

From the MANY posts I have searched the data seems to say AP is slightly better. I must be missing some mechanic on why AP is better but I have been unable to locate it. Everywhere I look I see AP as the way to go when it comes to gemming items, but was just curious as to the reason behind it.

Warbz · 04/14/09, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Guntz

I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5

I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?

I am wondering the same thing, as well as poison choices. Can anyone shed some light on the situation?

wykedtron · 04/14/09, 3:39 PM

Has anyone researched the damage increase of the Giant Slayer enchantment?

ThatDude · 04/14/09, 4:42 PM

I've looked but not been able to find an answer, so hopefully someone does.

With poisons going on PPM system and being normalized on weapon speed, what are Mutilate's best dagger setup suppose to be? I also don't have more than 1 Sinister Revenge or Webbed Death so I wouldn't really be able to find when the servers come up. But I see SRx2 and I also see that WDx2. So what's the real answer? I also read that apparently MH is suppose to have a slow dagger and fast for OH, is this correct?

Edit: This is based on 3.0 gear
Edit: Since I'm asking for my hand to be held let me rephrase

I have read through pages and pages looking for this answer but I haven't seen any FIRM ANSWER. I can theorycraft but that doesn't answer my question. I can use common sense, but that doesn't answer my question. I know what my current setup is and am only questioning what others are saying because I cannot disprove them. So all I'm asking for is alittle incite.