Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 165

Mosq · 04/14/09, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Okuno

I see it all the time but whats the value of :

Agility versus AP?

From the MANY posts I have searched the data seems to say AP is slightly better. I must be missing some mechanic on why AP is better but I have been unable to locate it. Everywhere I look I see AP as the way to go when it comes to gemming items, but was just curious as to the reason behind it.

With the 4% boost from AP to Deadly Poison the slight advantage AGI gems had is closed/smaller.

Until we learn how useful crit is with the 4pt8 I wouldn't start re-gemming to AP if you gemmed AGI prior.

Skatanic · 04/14/09, 5:16 PM

deleted

DavidMB · 04/14/09, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by ThatDude

I've looked but not been able to find an answer, so hopefully someone does.

With poisons going on PPM system and being normalized on weapon speed, what are Mutilate's best dagger setup suppose to be? I also don't have more than 1 Sinister Revenge or Webbed Death so I wouldn't really be able to find when the servers come up. But I see SRx2 and I also see that WDx2. So what's the real answer? I also read that apparently MH is suppose to have a slow dagger and fast for OH, is this correct?

Edit: This is based on 3.0 gear
Edit: Since I'm asking for my hand to be held let me rephrase

I have read through pages and pages looking for this answer but I haven't seen any FIRM ANSWER. I can theorycraft but that doesn't answer my question. I can use common sense, but that doesn't answer my question. I know what my current setup is and am only questioning what others are saying because I cannot disprove them. So all I'm asking for is alittle incite.

Word of fair warning, this is just what I've gathered and it is not set in stone, as the usual answer is when a Spreadsheet is completely updated and accurate to 3.1's new mechanics we can be sure, but from what I've gathered the best setup to go into Ulduar with would be Dual-Sinister Revenge.

However, if you had two daggers of equal iLevel / Stats, you would want slow/fast (I assume its due to IP/DP and finishers proc'ing Instant Poison). However, even if you don't have Dual-Sinister Revenge I've heard that Sinister Revenge Main-Hand with Webbed Death Off-Hand is slightly inferior if not equal.

Kapla · 04/14/09, 7:17 PM

Enlighten a clueless newbie please.

Why isn't 3/3 Master Poisoner chosen over 3/5 Close Quarters Combat in the cookie cutter pve mutilate specs? Seems to me you'd be trading 3% crit for 3% crit and the post Envenom buff to Deadly Poison application. Or am I just oblivious to some outlandish quirks in the mechanics making the crit from CQC better than of MP? :P

MrPersonage · 04/14/09, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kapla

Enlighten a clueless newbie please.

Why isn't 3/3 Master Poisoner chosen over 3/5 Close Quarters Combat in the cookie cutter pve mutilate specs? Seems to me you'd be trading 3% crit for 3% crit and the post Envenom buff to Deadly Poison application. Or am I just oblivious to some outlandish quirks in the mechanics making the crit from CQC better than of MP? :P

My understanding is that the pally talent Heart of the Crusader gives us the same 3% as Master Poisoner so we take the 3% for daggers since stacking Master Poisoner with HotC would be wasted points. I could be mistaken though, I read this a while ago.

Grimmauld · 04/14/09, 8:26 PM

Originally Posted by MrPersonage

My understanding is that the pally talent Heart of the Crusader gives us the same 3% as Master Poisoner so we take the 3% for daggers since stacking Master Poisoner with HotC would be wasted points. I could be mistaken though, I read this a while ago.

This is correct. An elemental shaman's Totem of Wrath also provides the same, unstacking benefit as the rogue and ret paladin talents. Also, Master Poisoner is the least reliable of the three because of Envenom causing the DP stacks to drop off.

Joigahdenn · 04/14/09, 8:43 PM

Am I misunderstanding, the discussion taking place in the last few posts this is a moot point now that 3.1 is out?

I was under the impression that 3/3 MP with 3/5 CQC is superior to 3/3 TtT and 3/5 CQC with the buff to MP. There seems to be some speculation on this, according to this post: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...1/#post1192846

but the general idea is that you want to spec into MP now instead of TtT, correct?

Lyphe · 04/14/09, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Guntz

I need some help picking a combat build for 3.1. In the early preview thread I saw 3 viable choices.
7/51/13
18/51/2
15/51/5

I know that poison damage has been buffed as well as armor pen rating. 7/51/13 would give me more armor pen and 18/51/2 would give me more poison damage. There is also the standard 15/51/5 build. What looks like the best choice at the moment?

Right now, the early thinking is 15/51/5, although they are likely to be very close ...
Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet

Grunge · 04/14/09, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Links

Am I misunderstanding, the discussion taking place in the last few posts this is a moot point now that 3.1 is out?

I was under the impression that 3/3 MP with 3/5 CQC is superior to 3/3 TtT and 3/5 CQC with the buff to MP. There seems to be some speculation on this, according to this post: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...1/#post1192846

but the general idea is that you want to spec into MP now instead of TtT, correct?

Correct, you spec MP because of the +45% DP application after envenom, not because of the extra crit.
And as for TtT vs CQC, 3% crit on everything > 6% crit on combo moves.

Grishmaluk · 04/15/09, 5:58 AM

With the dual-specc function coming up and all, I though about having one of my speccs to maximize FoK dmg. Will this be it? Feedback plox: 38/33/0

Mech0z · 04/15/09, 9:32 AM

Just a quick question before my server gets up, is mutilate talent points set as they used to? Or have any talent points changed?

Also which of the new glyphs should be used with mutilate now?

HFB
Mutilate
Rupture?

Gilin · 04/15/09, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Grishmaluk

With the dual-specc function coming up and all, I though about having one of my speccs to maximize FoK dmg. Will this be it? Feedback plox: 38/33/0

you probably want to go for Adrenaline Rush in a FoK spam spec. AR+FoK is pretty powerful on trash packs of things that have a reasonable amount of health.

Tuon · 04/15/09, 10:26 AM

Might be slacking on my part, but i have followed the rogue threads and need a final answer.

With the new glyphs, i plan on getting HfB/rupture and mutilate glyphs. This makes me loose alot of time on my slice uptime, and make my rotation even tighter.

So, right now im sitting on 309 hit rating and want to put points from Precision, into imp slice and dice. 1 or 2 points?
I also have Grim toll in my bank, with the armor penetration buff is it worth switching out mirror of truth? This will also help on the hit rating problem by switching out points in precision.

Any help?

thanks!

Kukulcan · 04/15/09, 12:28 PM

Well, i would have not asked this in 3.0 but now i have some doubts..

I find myself with 3 good daggers for mutilate spec from Naxx25 and i don't know what would be the optimal way to use them ; namely i have..

- Sinister Revenge
- Webbed Deathx1
- Murder

Until now i am using WD in MH and Murder in OH.. but is that the best way with new PPM and differential factor importance of weapon speed?

chalon · 04/15/09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kukulcan

Well, i would have not asked this in 3.0 but now i have some doubts..

I find myself with 3 good daggers for mutilate spec from Naxx25 and i don't know what would be the optimal way to use them ; namely i have..

- Sinister Revenge
- Webbed Deathx1
- Murder

Until now i am using WD in MH and Murder in OH.. but is that the best way with new PPM and differential factor importance of weapon speed?

MH SR w/ IP, OH WD w/ DP