Santander

I'm a 15/51/5 Combat Rogue with 5 points in Hack and Slash and one in CQC (just for kicks, that last point is kind of a floating one, could go Sprint, obviously).

My DPS results (10 minute tests) both on the training dummy and in actual raid situations are that Raging Deathbringer (MH) and Malice (!) (OH) is a better combination than Raging Deathbringer (MN) and Steel Bladebreaker (245, OH), with FoK totally out of the picture, just a normal rotation (with rupture). Both Malice and Bladebreaker are enchanted with Mongoose, both have deadly poison in these situations.

Does anybody know what's going on here? I have the same expertise with both offhands, am above poison hit cap with both, the Malice setup has better haste, that's about it. Why would a much slower offhand yield better results than a much faster one with higher damage?

I first noticed this (Deathbringer / Malice) when my only other offhand choice was Namlak's (Deathbringer / Namlak). Slower, higher damage OH won out every time, but didn't post on it. Now that I have the upgrade, this is doubly puzzling. Thanks for any theories / pointers - Zodar and company model quick offhands, and I do wonder if some very high damage slow offhands might be situationally better than some lower damage quick offhands that rate very highly MAEP.

 

Istaril

The simple answer; you have 5 pts in Hack and Slash... swings from Malice are proccing HnS.

You'll find even better results with a faster axe/sword offhand.

 

Furyum

Just a quick question. Having gotten back into my Rogue, i'm wondering what the deal is with Energy Pooling.

Does it happen/is it a DPS boost in Combat spec? In the spreadsheet i'm using it says 'Slice and Dice is refreshed with 5 combo points if you can pool within n seconds of SnD dropping; otherwise, it is refreshed with whatever combo points you have as the previous Slice and Dice is dropping.' It suggests that n is 3.2 seconds but i'm honestly confused by the sentence.

Thanks for any replys.

 

Thaela

Energy pooling isn't a dps boost for combat spec per se, but reducing the number of times you hit SnD (and thus spend energy) will be. Pooling energy for combat is really only advantagous in limited circumstances where you can look forward to temp buffs being up for you to chain an extra finisher in (aka, the way mutilate plays) or so you don't clip SnD (early, without dropping it completely obviously) or Rupture and waste energy.

I'm not familiar with the spreadsheet, but the basic rule of thumb (the way I see it):
Can I get another evis in and still get enough combo points to refresh SnD after? If not, pool as much as possible before hitting SnD.

 

paulsen

Imagine that rupture and SnD has plenty of seconds left, and you're at 0 energy with 5 combo points waiting (not very likely, but I wrote it that way to explain better). If you can manage to wait to 80 energy before you refresh SnD you'll have more energy to rebuild rupture fast and maybe throw in a Evis. If you don't wait (and cap SnD) you'll probably not get the chance to throw in a 2point evis or similar.

It's a DPS boost, if you don't mess up. It requires alot of training (and depends on buffs, so don't test this on a dummy).

 

Xynen

There's no reason not to test this on a dummy. While your haste will be buffed in a raid, and thus your energy regen will be increased (assuming combat potency) attacking a test dummy on your own can still get you used to the time constraints of keeping SnD and Rupture up without clipping either one. If you can learn to budget your time and energy between Snd and Rupture (and even Expose armor if you have no Warrior) with time enough to spare for Eviscerate in between, then chances are your windows of opportunity will be larger during melee heavy fights and you'll be more likely to spot them and make use of the extra burst.

 

paulsen

And your crit (sinister strike glyph) and hit chance (combat potency), in addition to the haste you're mentioning. It's quite the difference in a fully raid buffed setup and against a target dummy with zero buffs and debuffs.

This is essentially why we are asking people to stop coming to these forums complaining about their DPS being way too low on a combat dummy versus what they got told to be their (theoretically) DPS in a spreadsheet. The spreadsheets are made for a reason

 

Valustria

I feel like I should know the answer to this, but the talent's tooltip caused me to doubt:

Can Slice and Dice proc a combo point via Ruthlessness?

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Jaron

Ruthlessness:

Gives your melee finishing moves a 20% chance to add a combo point to your target.

Slice and Dice:

Finishing move that increases melee attack speed by 40%. Last longer per combo point:


Based on the information above... read exactly from each tooltip, I would say yes; Slice and Dice can proc Ruthlessness.

 

Valustria

But all the other finishing moves state "Melee Range" -- so does the move have to be a melee attack, or anything that affects melee (as in the case of SnD)?

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

• Vulajin

It excludes Deadly Throw. That's it.

 

Jeppathum

I've found SnD proccing a combo point quite handy in AOE fights where I don't want to use 60 energy to mutilate to get cps but i can often get one and keep it through lucky procs for a few uses of SnD.

 

Yuntiff

SnD does not have to be in melee range to use or to proc Ruthlessness. Occasionally on Faction Champions I'll toss a SS on an add I'm passing by on the way to the kill target, hit SnD before I get to the kill target, and be able to refresh it again thanks to my fresh new combo point.

Edit: Oops, looks like I was too late on that response, my mistake.

 

Santander

Are you combat rogues

A. only hitting your sinister strike key (or macro) when you have exactly enough energy to trigger it?
B. constantly hitting the sinister strike key as your basic attack?

This is to say, if one were to listen to you at your keyboard, does one hear a constant stream of the same key being smashed over and over five times a second, or a choreographed pattern of only hitting your special attacks when you have the energy ready?

Also: do you have macros bound to every special attack (SS, SnD, R, E) including autoattack instructions, or are you using the buttons straight off of the character sheet, dragged to your bars?

 

bural

Use the mousewheel tilt function to constantly send key-up messages to the client. This allows you to use Sinister Strike as soon as possible without the need for constant clicking. It's very close to the (illegal) automation described in The AutoHotKey Thread, but as we're energy capped it doesn't really up our actions per minute and as mousetilt simply mimmicks constant mousescrolling, I'll keep doing it. If you tie any of the original weapon swap macros to it however, you could be in trouble.

That said, don't forget to pool energy for procs, proper snd clipping and tricks syncing.

Having a Sinister Strike macro with a shift modifier for SnD is very helpfull. While you're add it, add /startattack to that and your FOK makro (which should have a shiftmodifier for weaponswaps) to maximize autoattacks

 

Xynen

A: No, you don't ever want to be without energy. I hit SS when I'm at sixty energy or so, so I can have enough energy for any thing I may need it for.
B: Yes SS is combats basic attack used as explained in A.

I have almost everything keybound but the only thing with auto attack instructions is my vanish macro. Everything else starts auto attack anyway, excluding Gouge which stops it.

 

• Aldriana

I'd argue that your first point, while it applies to some fights, is invalid in general. There are some fights where you want to save energy for other abilities - for instance, when you're kicking you need to be sure to always have 25. However, there are other fights - say, Icehowl - where it behooves you to spend down, so it takes longer to cap out when you get whirled or stomped out of melee range. On such a fight, if you're not spending down, any energy you have in your bar is wasted when one of the knockback effects occur.

Hence: there are times when you want to save energy. There are times when you don't. On most fights, unless you have specific reason to do otherwise, spending down is fine; my sense is that most rogues do just spam Sinister Strike, except when they're specifically pooling for cycle reasons, kicking, or some other application. And that's totally fine. It's just a matter of knowing when you should and shouldn't do so.

 

Tensho

In cases where you have Hysteria, or are under some other damage increasing buff for a period of time, shouldnt we try to squeeze out as many SS/Finishers as we can in this time?

Ill be honest unless i know im close to trinket procs or I am going to get a buff of some sort, i dont really pool energy. Is it considered a loss of DPS by not doing so?

 

DrRusty

is it a good idea to spec into improve expose armor (rather than blood spatter) and replace glyph of rupture with glyph of expose armor for ruptureless mutilate? I tried not using EA and just using envenom, but I ended up with a lot of envenom buff overlap. I also tried to envenom as close to, or right after the envenom buff wore off, but sometimes I energy capped from waiting too much.

 

Hassam

At a glance, 5 stacks of Sunder Armor and Expose Armor will not stack in terms of armor reduction, so in terms of 25man raid utility having +10 secs on Expose Armor and less energy per Expose Armor finished will be less beneficial to you (and everyone else) than increased rupture uptime and rupture ticks pushing your DPS up.

 

Mavanas

Unless you are in charge of exposing armor in your raids, a glyph of tricks of the trade sounds like a much better option for the third glyph in ruptureless mutilate. Also points in Blood Spatter could go to Fleet Footed or Quick Recovery.

 

Onslaught

I am a human rogue and im sitting at 22 expertise I have 2 points in weapons expertise.


I was looking at the pocket guide
26 expertise (214 expertise rating) to cap.
16 expertise (132 expertise rating) to cap for rogues with 2/2 Weapon Expertise.
13 expertise (107 expertise rating) to cap for combat human rogues wielding a sword/mace.
11 expertise (91 expertise rating) to cap for combat dwarf rogues wielding a mace.
11 expertise (91 expertise rating) to cap for combat orc rogues wielding a fist/axe.

The above numbers are the expertise numbers needed from gear to cap.
The character tooltip should read 26 expertise.

Is this saying because im a human with 2 points into weapon expertise that I only need 16 to be capped?

 

pfooti

If your character sheet says "22", you're not capped. Both the human bonus and the talent bonus are included in that number (unlike, say the calculated hit rating that shows at mouseover, which doesn't include precision).

http://www.castrandom.com - we're not sure what it's about either.

 

RazorOye

Latency has become an increasingly important issue for me. They are doing some work on the high speed lines in the area and I'll be suffering this way for at least a couple weeks.

I routinely run b/w 700-1k latency in ToGC Heroic (both 25 and 10) and there was a significant difference between the dps I did last week on Anub 10mH and the dps I did this week. In fact, there was a significant difference between the dps I did overall in the raid this week vs. last week.

So I'm trying to rectify that with the assertion that I'm "not really losing any DPS" - it certainly feels that way.

I've been beating my head against the keyboard trying to find something else that was different - but the raid makeup was essentially the same. I think we had a ret pally this week instead of a second lock like we had last week.

But I moved from second last week in DPS to last among the damage dealers last night. And it's frustrating - because I don't know a way to model the extent to which, if any, the high latency is adversely affecting my DPS.

 

dirtlord

Im a combat rogue mace spec who just happend into some daggers. So I said to my self hey a wepon switch macro to daggers for fok would be nice since that would produce more dps, only i couldn't find a macro that would switch both wepons, then switch back does anyone know of a macro for this ?