Gran88

Hi, I am a frequently user of Aldrianas combat roguesheet and yesterday I run into some problem, I am using this main hand weapon[Raging Deathbringer] and it does not exist in the roguesheet, I thought perhaps it is so bad Aldriana didn't count it in, if that is so do you think I should change for [The Lion's Maw] which I also have to use.

I am not certain about if this is counting as hand holding, I hope not, my idea is that the item lvl 245 wep is better due to its dps but that it has been left out of the roguesheet because of lack of stats, I would not want to enchant the lions maw with berserking just to foudn out the wep I use indeed is better.

 

Valustria

It would certainly be hand-holding if I clicked the link for you, but...
Gutgore Ripper, Vis'kag, and Deathbringer

I think what proc testing has been done with these weapons has shown them to be about on par with those of one tier lower that have stats, so in line with that ilvl 232 Lion's Maw you have.

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

Michmich

1) Is there any cap for expertise ? (it doesn't appear in the TTT), I guess it's 26 like every other classes (6.5% dodge on a boss).
2) When using the spreadsheet, my attacks have 0.00% chance to be dodged but the EP value of expertise is still somewhere near 1.96, why ?
3) Why "spell hit" and "melee hit" are in the EP values ? Only talents, buffs and debuffs still differentiate hit for melee and for spell. Which number do I need to choose for regular "hit rating" on equipment as it stands for both ?
Thanks in advance, sorry for my english.

 

InFi

If I remember correctly Exp and Hit values are calculated by calculating how much dps you would lose for each point of the stat (exp, spell hit, style hit und white hit).

And yes the exp cap is 26.

 

Onodrim

1) and 2) To further expand on what InFi wrote, I believe the EP values of the spreadsheet are a bit more static and to some extent represent a fixed stat value. That means that EP values don't react directly to when you reach a given cap; e.g. the value of Exp isn't reduced to 0 just because you reach 26 expertise in your current gear. I think the reasoning behind this is that if the spreadsheet was modelled to have EP values react drastically to reaching a cap, an item with for example Exp would appear arbitrarily crappy to players already at that cap - thus not doing justice to the other stats on that item and in that way reducing the overall usability of the spreadsheet as a tool to mix and match gear.

3) A reason why the spreadsheet accounts for both spell and melee hit is that poison attacks are categorized as spell damage whereas the rest of a rogue's attacks are categorized as physical damage. As such, rogues operate with a set of different hit rating caps, if you will, since in order to reduce your chance to miss with a spell by 1%, you need to increase your hit rating by 26,23 and in order to reduce your chance to miss with a physical attack by 1%, you need to increase you hit rating by 32,79.

 

Averiel

Was wondering if someone can confirm if I am doing this calculation for FoK dmg, ignoring poisons.

Trying to figure out the reason why my FoK dmg on H Anub is lagging behind the other 3 rogues in the raid.

Rogue 1: mace/dag
Rogue 2: axe/axe
Rogue 3: fist/dag
Rogue 4 (me): axe/axe

Since FoK is based off of weapon damage, is it two tiered in terms of first calculating your MH dmg (check weapon type, then use appropiate multiplier for that weapon), then calculate OH dmg (redoing the check for which multiplier).

Next question would be concerning where this weapon damage is taken from? Would it be the average dps number on the weapon?

Thanks.

 

Mavanas

It should be this formula:
=(MH damage average*AP/14*MH weapon speed*if(dagger,1.5,1)*(1-MH physical damage reduction)+OH damage average*AP/14*OH weapon speed*if(dagger,1.5,1)*(1-OH physical damage reduction)*50%*(1+dualwielding talent))*(1+ savage combat)*(1+BM hunter buff)*(1+Find Weakness)*(1+Murder)*(1+HFB)

 

Nikkeli

So I've noticed mongoose gets better and better as gear improves (atleast for combat), now that I'm muti, would mongoose outvalue berserking in 3.3, especially in ICC gear due to haste getting also better?

 

campiona

Change it immediately. The proc on that axe from Onyxia isn't worth the static stats that Lion's Maw has. Switch it out.

 

Valustria

Can you say that with certainty? [Raging Deathbringer] has a 2.7 speed, while [The Lion's Maw] has a 2.6 speed, and that difference plus the higher raw DPS can compensate for a lot of the lost damage caused by the lack of stats on the Deathbringer. Are you absolutely sure the proc doesn't compensate for the rest?

"In emptiness there is good, but no evil. Wisdom exists, logic exists, the way exists, and the mind is empty."
~ Miyamoto Musashi, The Scroll of Emptiness, The Book of Five Rings

 

campiona

Alright, this is going to fall into the "test dummy/personal experience in raids/etc." sort of response because, quite frankly, there isn't really any model (that I am aware of) to account for any DPS spikes occuring from it's proc. But... here is my personal experience: I got that weapon early in Ony's re-release and I chanted it and put it to work. I spent time on the dummies, I took it with me into some fairly straightforward tank-and-spank encounters (e.g., Koralon, Gormok, Valkyr twins, etc.) and the proc was very infrequent. I've talked w/ other rogues on my server who theorycraft and run in high end guilds and the consensus was the same -- that Ony axe belongs in the bank if you have Lion's Maw.

I wish there were more concrete data and stats I could offer up. Your question about the raw DPS and slower speed is legit, though. I just wish I had more to offer besides my rogue-stinct.

 

Yuntiff

There has been more concrete data offered up in these threads in the past and it has been determined that the 3 Ony weapons scale pretty much directly to weapons one tier below (i.e. 245 Vis'kag to Serilas).

 

Mavanas

It was more of a rule of thumb. Besides what he needs to compare is a Deathbringer ilvl245 to Lion's Maw ilvl232, so that rule of thumb does not help resolve it?

 

NvidiaN

I'm just wondering if the 2pt9 set bonus it becomes worth it to use rupture once you've adopted a ruptureless cycle at any point.

My reason for asking is that it seems as though a 1 cp rupture costing 25 energy could reduce the cost of your sinister strikes to 5 energy, thus improving your dps, though I guess that depends on the proc rate, which I would also like to know if you could provide it.

 

Milou

The proc rate is in the 1-2% range, far too low to make up for the dps loss of using rupture.

 

Kytrarewn

I don't believe that it works that way- the threat transferred is merely that gleaned from damage and other actions, not latent threat.

That's backed up by the tooltip as well:
Tricks of the Trade - Spell - World of Warcraft

If you popped a healthstone, he'd get the aggro from the healing event, but not from the threat being given to you from the other rogue, since you aren't taking over his "actions".

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

Mitra

I will have about 920 arp after i gem all my gear without an arp trinket. Im wondering if that is enough to finally replace all my tier 8.5 and do an eviscerate only cycle. All my gear has arp on it except chest, belt and cloak. If it isnt enough what is the minimum amount i want without GT/runestone?