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Old 04/22/09, 10:31 AM   #2611
Batlain
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by turbozmike View Post
would someone mind looking at my armory profile?

The World of Warcraft Armory

Im conscerned about my gemming. With the gear I currently have I had very little Expertise so I gemmed to get near the expertise cap. My dps went up from doing so but I havent been able to find another rogue that has done the same thing.

Appreciate any tips - guilds doing ulduar for the first time tonight.

Thanks
The resources are around you to do your own research.

Good places to start for your specific questions are listed below.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-p...updated_3_1_a/
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...updated_3_1_a/

With that said, expertise does provide cycle stability for mutilate in that a finisher not landing could ruin your cycle.

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Old 04/22/09, 10:44 AM   #2612
jkcheng122
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by turbozmike View Post
would someone mind looking at my armory profile?

The World of Warcraft Armory

Im conscerned about my gemming. With the gear I currently have I had very little Expertise so I gemmed to get near the expertise cap. My dps went up from doing so but I havent been able to find another rogue that has done the same thing.

Appreciate any tips - guilds doing ulduar for the first time tonight.

Thanks
I've done the same thing and gemmed every available slot with expertise other than to fill Meta requirements. I'm also Mutilate build whereas hitting the exp cap for combat isn't as important due to Surprised Attacks preventing your finishers from being dodged. I don't know what the particular Expertise is to shoot for for combat builds though.

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Old 04/22/09, 12:26 PM   #2613
Z1D
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
My apologies if this was answered earlier, but it's hard to dig through a thread this large and find what you're looking for. With the poison changes in 3.1, does anyone have any good data on which ones to be using in a combat build? I had read in a few places, and sort of assumed myself that wound poison / deadly would be the choice (especially with the buff to deadly), but my WWS data doesn't really seem to be backing that up. The breakdown I saw showed something to the effect of WP ~ 14% of total dps, DP ~ 8.5% of total. Is there any good reason not to use WP/WP? I'm using KT's reach MH/ WD offhand, but since the poisons are PPM, the damage I get from each hand should be pretty close unless I'm missing something.

Link to a typical WWS from last night in case you want to compare.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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Old 04/22/09, 12:34 PM   #2614
Lightshadow
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Z1D View Post
The breakdown I saw showed something to the effect of WP ~ 14% of total dps, DP ~ 8.5% of total. Is there any good reason not to use WP/WP? I'm using KT's reach MH/ WD offhand, but since the poisons are PPM, the damage I get from each hand should be pretty close unless I'm missing something.
Why would the damage be anywhere near comparable? Your MH poison gets a ton of extra chances to proc poisons from your yellow attacks so even if you put WP on your offhand weapon you won't see twice as much WP damage.

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Old 04/22/09, 12:36 PM   #2615
Z1D
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Lightshadow View Post
Why would the damage be anywhere near comparable? Your MH poison gets a ton of extra chances to proc poisons from your yellow attacks so even if you put WP on your offhand weapon you won't see twice as much WP damage.
Right, brain fart on my behalf. I was just looking over that wws again, apparently on the last 2 tries I accidentally put double WP on, and I noticed my overall poison damage clocked in a little lower. Nvm, wp/dp it is!

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Old 04/23/09, 1:13 AM   #2616
Unpudgeyball
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Jubei'Thos
Out of curiosity, (and I apologise if this has been covered elsewhere but I haven't seen anything on it thus far) has anyone looked into whether mutilate with serrated blades will become a viable option post 4pc t8?

From my PoV, the question comes down to whether or not the 30% gain to rupture damage out-weights 3 points in CQC, since the ArP from serrated blades & trinkets such as Grim Toll (or equivalents) can more than cover the loss of points in precision (probably putting hit past the poison hit cap anyway)

Very simple math suggests to me that assuming rupture is about 7.5% of our damage, a 30% increase in that would equate to roughly a 2.25% increase in dps without factoring in the 4pc t8 in anyway.

Last edited by Unpudgeyball : 04/23/09 at 1:20 AM.

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Old 04/23/09, 5:12 AM   #2617
Wytryszek
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I would like to put 2 points in Throwing Spec in the standard Combat 15/51/5 build. I have played with spreadsheets to see from which talent I can steal 1 point and get the least impact on DPS. It seems that the weakest talent is Precision, followed next by Weapon Exp. It's a bit surprising - any thoughts if that is really a safe place to subtract the point?
Also, out of the 2 choices, I am tempted to actually go for 1/2 in Weapon Exp. to leave myself more room under the expertise cap so I am not restricted in gear selection (currently using [Chestguard of the Recluse] which pretty much rules out any other item with expertise on it).

Edit: After Onodrim's answer I redid my tests and got the same result as he: so Lethality weakest, then Precision and Weapon Expertise. Apparently I fudged something the first time.

Last edited by Wytryszek : 04/24/09 at 5:20 AM. Reason: I was wrong

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Old 04/23/09, 9:22 AM   #2618
Onodrim
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Aggramar (EU)
According to my spreadsheet, the smallest reduction in dps is achieved through 0/2 in Endurance and 4/5 in Lethality. The reduction is marginally smaller compared to 4/5 in Precision, so obviously it's safe to assume that it'd vary from spreadsheet to spreadsheet. Still, removing a point in Lethality should be viable. At any rate, applying that to a standard combat build would leave you with two points for Throwing Specialization.

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Old 04/23/09, 3:33 PM   #2619
chesiremonkey
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Gnomeregan
Hello fellow rogues,

I have two, hopefully, simple questions. With the current poison changes and my current spec of 18/51/2, am I better off with instant on my MH to take advantage of Vile Poisons or should I still be applying wound? I've used the search function and I really didn't find a definitive answer. My next question is about Armor Pen. I have read it's great, I have read it isn't what it's cracked up to be. Am I better to gem for AP and wait and see or just gem the Arm. Pen now?

I have used the spreadsheet for both of these questions but it seems from what I have read the sheets aren't 100% reliable atm. My initial thoughts are to use instant MH and gem for Arm. Pen. Thanks for any help you guys can give.

Last edited by chesiremonkey : 04/23/09 at 4:35 PM. Reason: Wrong talent in post.

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Old 04/23/09, 4:08 PM   #2620
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Wytryszek View Post
I would like to put 2 points in Throwing Spec in the standard Combat 15/51/5 build. I have played with spreadsheets to see from which talent I can steal 1 point and get the least impact on DPS. It seems that the weakest talent is Precision, followed next by Weapon Exp. It's a bit surprising - any thoughts if that is really a safe place to subtract the point?
Also, out of the 2 choices, I am tempted to actually go for 1/2 in Weapon Exp. to leave myself more room under the expertise cap so I am not restricted in gear selection (currently using [Chestguard of the Recluse] which pretty much rules out any other item with expertise on it).
Personally, since I will be primarily playing Mutilate, and only going Combat as needed, I'm inclined to keep my gear set the same with full Expertise on it, and putting 0/2 Weapon Ex into 2/2 Throwing Spec instead.

Originally Posted by chesiremonkey View Post
I have two, hopefully, simple questions. With the current poison changes and my current spec of 18/51/2, am I better off with instant on my MH to take advantage of Imp. Poisons or should I still be applying wound? I've used the search function and I really didn't find a definitive answer. My next question is about Armor Pen. I have read it's great, I have read it isn't what it's cracked up to be. Am I better to gem for AP and wait and see or just gem the Arm. Pen now?
If you have 3/5 Improved Poisons then yes, you should be using Instant Poison. As for gemming, I'm pretty sure gemming for AP/Agi as Combat is still better than gemming for ArPen.

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Old 04/23/09, 7:19 PM   #2621
Llewelynn
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Shadowsong (EU)
New simple question

I've seen you talk about a spec involving Fist MH, Sword OH - CQC and SS. As I've been so lucky to get Remorse to replace my former Murder im really interested in this spec and would like a second opinion and a shot at what the best combat spec with these two weapons would be. Im currently using Calamity's grasp MH.

I've tried using the 3.1 spreadsheet but seeing as some of the features arent working i dont feel like solely depending on it for answers.

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Old 04/23/09, 7:48 PM   #2622
Lynbernard
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Silver Hand
ALlright, moving on. One thing - has any rogue here benefitted from a sword MH and fist oH, if so, what is the recommended talent tree? Ive seen one for fist MH and sword OH, but not the other way around.

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Old 04/23/09, 7:59 PM   #2623
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Sword MH Fist OH is almost always a bad idea. Basically, CQC and Mace spec are well balanced against each other on both hands; relatively speaking, more of the benefit from sword spec is in the OH, and less on the MH. That is, Sword Spec benefiting only the MH gives a smaller damage increase than CQC only on the MH, but Sword Spec only on the OH gives more benefit than CQC or Mace Spec would.

Thus, using Sword OH with some other weapon MH is designed to give the higher benefit of OH sword spec without having to deal with a weaker MH weapon specialization; using a sword MH would give you the weakness of sword spec on the MH without gaining the benefit of the stronger OH effect. Thus, barring really unlikely drops (i.e., the only remotely viable MH you have is a sword, and the only remotely viable OH you have is not), it's not going to be a good option in the majority of cases.

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Old 04/23/09, 8:42 PM   #2624
Llewelynn
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Im sorry if i didnt express myself clearly. Im currently using Calamity's Grasp in MH and Murder in OH. What i want to do is Switch my OH (Murder) to Remorse hence i need a CQC and SS.
My real problem is that i dont know which of my current standard 15/51/5 combat spec talent point i should remove and put into Sword Specialization. Could you give me some ideas?

Nevertheless, thank you for your quick response

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Old 04/24/09, 2:33 AM   #2625
Onodrim
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Aggramar (EU)
Obviously, it may very well vary from spreadsheet to spreadsheet, but according to mine, you'd achieve the highest potential dps with this spec.

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