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Old 05/19/09, 12:14 PM   #2926
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
Tinwhisker's Avatar
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Minoritee View Post
My guild recently did general in ulduar with a successful kill. My dps was around 4.4k dps >.>

Needless to say I was a little discouraged, but I had thrown on the pvp gloves for the kick bonus. Is this lost energy THAT much of a dps nerf, or am I just doing something wrong. I'm usually top 3 dps on every fight, but on that one it was a bit bad .
I don't know about anyone else, but when working on a boss for a while with long hours, wipes and everyone on edge I tend to focus on my assignment and surviving above all else, thus letting a lot of things fall by the side. It's a bad habit but not that uncommon. Once you have that first kill under your belt it's much easier to crank things up and work on all the things you should have done in the first place.

If you're responsible for kicks and have endured several wipes it's entirely possible that you've tunnel-visioned your interrupt assignment and not capitalized on the DPS you should be doing. First thing is to see if you're forgetting to attack and capping energy. Assuming you kept SND going, look at your WWS add up the energy from your attacks, then go look at your energy gained through FA (Mutialte), CP (Combat), and RS.

Fight length in seconds X 10
+ energy gained from FA/CP/RS
- energy spent on attacks (Mutilate, Kick, Sinister Strike, etc)
"some number"

If "some number" seems large (or is actually more than zero), then you probably capped energy at some point. If that's the case, the PvP glove bonus was all for naught.


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Old 05/19/09, 12:21 PM   #2927
Leto
King Hippo
 
Leito
Troll Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Minoritee View Post
I'm not sure about the haste, but PPM is procs per minute!

My question today is this. My guild recently did general in ulduar with a successful kill. My dps was around 4.4k dps >.>

Needless to say I was a little discouraged, but I had thrown on the pvp gloves for the kick bonus. Is this lost energy THAT much of a dps nerf, or am I just doing something wrong. I'm usually top 3 dps on every fight, but on that one it was a bit bad .

ALSO, in response to the flame leviathan expose thread, if you can drop an oil slick under him durring overload, hop off and expose, and hop back on and pick up the people ejected from flame leviathan, I don't see the harm in exposing. The choppers just don't do enough damage to flame leviathan to not do this.

EDIT: Since they're changing Malice/Remorse, with remorse being 1.5 speed, will these surpass the cqc spec with similar ilevel weapons? Hopefully spreadsheets will be updated to account for these changes
For reference, I checked our last two vezax kills, and I averaged an interrupt every 27 seconds alternating with another rogue, so that's a little under 1 energy/sec lost.

You could throw that into a spreadsheet to see what sort of effect it might have, but I'd imagine the more significant cause of dps loss would be the movement during the surges (assuming your guild kites him). We just tanked the surge this week versus kite last week and my dps went up about 700 when I didn't have to chase him.

Sure there may have been other reasons, but I doubt you'd be losing over 1000 dps just from kicking twice a minute, so I doubt using the glove bonus is worth it... just pool energy a little.

Rogue at heart.

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Old 05/19/09, 12:22 PM   #2928
Ticia
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by Minoritee View Post
My question today is this. My guild recently did general in ulduar with a successful kill. My dps was around 4.4k dps >.>

Needless to say I was a little discouraged, but I had thrown on the pvp gloves for the kick bonus. Is this lost energy THAT much of a dps nerf, or am I just doing something wrong. I'm usually top 3 dps on every fight, but on that one it was a bit bad .
Likely neither, the Aura of Despair Vezax puts up that prevents Mana regen also includes a 20% Melee Attack Speed Reduction, so that probably accounts for a large chunk of the dps lost during that fight. Also, as Tinwhisker said, it's likely that you weren't perfect on your cycle since you were focusing on interrupting (I know my cycle doesn't ever work out perfectly on that fight).

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Old 05/19/09, 12:26 PM   #2929
Arthemis
Banned
 
Human Rogue
 
Khaz Modan
thanks a lot Gnickers!
I am definitely confused with combat for now and trying to eviscerate at any opportunity even if SnD is at 5sec and rupture almost over
I ll try the strategy from the fast and flawed advice then!

As for the tunnel vision, I agree, we arent on general yet, but I remember when KT was still hard, and we didnt have any gear, I was kicking his Frost Bolts like crazy, often dropping SnD and Rupture
(i was muti...imagine how much fail takes to drop SnD lol)

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Old 05/19/09, 12:28 PM   #2930
Lyphe
Von Kaiser
 
Lyphe's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Minoritee View Post
My guild recently did general in ulduar with a successful kill. My dps was around 4.4k dps >.>

Needless to say I was a little discouraged, but I had thrown on the pvp gloves for the kick bonus. Is this lost energy THAT much of a dps nerf, or am I just doing something wrong. I'm usually top 3 dps on every fight, but on that one it was a bit bad .
I'd not worry too much about your DPS ranking on this particular fight.

First, you are responsible for kicks that "cannot" be missed and this has a negative effect on your rotation no matter how you slice it. Second, there is a 20% melee haste DEbuff applied to you throughout the fight from an aura ( aura of despair ). And third, you'll find it tough to compete with any competent caster on that fight due to the buff that they get from standing in Shadow Crashes ( provides a 100% increase in damage and attack speed, plus 75% less mana cost ). We had a Boomkin sustaining 15,000 dps for a short period at one point in our fight which I could not come close to competing with even though I'm consistently in our top 3 on most fights.

Bottom line: Vezax is about survival and kicking for Rogues ... high dps is just a bonus.

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Old 05/19/09, 3:04 PM   #2931
Sylverfox
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Minoritee View Post
EDIT: Since they're changing Malice/Remorse, with remorse being 1.5 speed, will these surpass the cqc spec with similar ilevel weapons? Hopefully spreadsheets will be updated to account for these changes
i'm curious about this as well. personally i think the changes to these two weapons and the effect on the rogue community particularly sword loving rogues (die hard sword fans that they are) is immense.

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Old 05/19/09, 3:46 PM   #2932
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
Grunge's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Sylverfox View Post
i'm curious about this as well. personally i think the changes to these two weapons and the effect on the rogue community particularly sword loving rogues (die hard sword fans that they are) is immense.
Editing them into Adraina's spreadsheet actually shows Serilas+Void Sabre/Rune-Edged/Remorse superior to Masticator+Combatant's.
However Malice is inferior to Masticator with any combination

Interestingly enough Caress of Insanity+Stonerender is comparable to Masticator+Combatant's.

Last edited by Grunge : 05/19/09 at 4:06 PM.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 05/20/09, 12:58 AM   #2933
Warbz
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Arthas
I haven't figgured out how to edit the spreadsheet and I was wondering if anyone had any information on Rune-Etched vs Remorse post buff. I've been running sword spec with Malice + Rune-Etched for quite some time and picked up a Remorse tonight, unsure if I should put berserking on it pending the new numbers.

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Old 05/20/09, 2:29 AM   #2934
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
Grunge's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Warbz View Post
I haven't figgured out how to edit the spreadsheet and I was wondering if anyone had any information on Rune-Etched vs Remorse post buff. I've been running sword spec with Malice + Rune-Etched for quite some time and picked up a Remorse tonight, unsure if I should put berserking on it pending the new numbers.
Short answer: Probably not.

Long answer: Edit the sheet via Format->Sheet->Unhide->Gear.
However if you also change the item name it breaks the listing. So simply edit the stats of a item you don't use.

Last edited by Grunge : 05/20/09 at 2:58 AM.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 05/20/09, 10:04 AM   #2935
PsilocinEI
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Echo Isles
EDIT: Nevermind, was right in front of my face... DOH

Last edited by PsilocinEI : 05/20/09 at 3:49 PM.

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Old 05/20/09, 10:39 AM   #2936
orderofmaken
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
Weapon specs

Hi, I've currently got a set of weapons for all three of combat now at the moment, just getting a lot of varied results when I've tested them in raids and would like some opinions on which you'd go for in PVE raiding.

My CQC weapons are The masticator and combatants bootblade with 16 agi gemmed in both.
Sword spec I have Malice and Remorse.
Mace spec Vulmir the northern tempest and Stonerender.

Been using Mace spec mostly, but I've read a lot of other forum posts people have made putting Mace spec down a lot and saying CQC and sword spec is the better of the three. But given the weapons I have right now, I don't know...I'm tempted to stick Mace or go CQC, mainly for the crit and benefit to t8 4/5 since it gives me over 40% unbuffed where as with Mace I have 34.73 but I like the armour pene, sadly don't have any trinkets to further boost it though at the moment.

Some helpful comments would be nice and or advice from your experiences with these specs and weapons if any of you have used any yet.

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Old 05/20/09, 10:51 AM   #2937
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by orderofmaken View Post
Hi, I've currently got a set of weapons for all three of combat now at the moment, just getting a lot of varied results when I've tested them in raids and would like some opinions on which you'd go for in PVE raiding.

My CQC weapons are The masticator and combatants bootblade with 16 agi gemmed in both.
Sword spec I have Malice and Remorse.
Mace spec Vulmir the northern tempest and Stonerender.

Been using Mace spec mostly, but I've read a lot of other forum posts people have made putting Mace spec down a lot and saying CQC and sword spec is the better of the three. But given the weapons I have right now, I don't know...I'm tempted to stick Mace or go CQC, mainly for the crit and benefit to t8 4/5 since it gives me over 40% unbuffed where as with Mace I have 34.73 but I like the armour pene, sadly don't have any trinkets to further boost it though at the moment.

Some helpful comments would be nice and or advice from your experiences with these specs and weapons if any of you have used any yet.
There is a spreadsheet that will tell you which of the combinations availiable to you will yeild the highest DPS.

If they're extremely close (they will be) keep in mind that many rogues prefer the intangibles of CQC (shared offhand itemization with Mutilate to an extent, higher baseline FoK damage thanks to daggers having better scaling for the ability, more flexibility in the assignment of the 'filler point' in the combat tree - you can pick up 1/2 Thrown spec, or 1/2 imp. sprint, or 1/2 Unfair Advantage if you were suitably deranged).

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Old 05/20/09, 12:59 PM   #2938
Riposte
Glass Joe
 
Riposte's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Blood Furnace
raid guide for each Raid instance?

Are there any raid guides for each instance along with post about different strats against those bosses within those instance?

example:
Boss: BillyBobJoe
Strat for Rogue's to Maximize DPS:
Things that can be CoS
Evasion'd
best time to use AR and KS

Items that drop from this boss that might benefit you!

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Old 05/20/09, 1:06 PM   #2939
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
Tinwhisker's Avatar
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Riposte View Post
Are there any raid guides for each instance along with post about different strats against those bosses within those instance?
You're not likely to find anything like that, especially here. It should be more than enough to know your own class skills and put them to best use. Some guides may say something like, "have a rogue tank RoS during the enrage" but that's about all you'll ever get outside of something like somebodies personal blog.

As for items though, there are lists both here and in other locations around the net that can help you. Read the first post the the "Rogue Gear" thread to get started.


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Old 05/20/09, 1:46 PM   #2940
HENNESSY
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Does anyone know if CoS gives us 90% total spell resist against a raid boss or if the actual number is a bit higher because of raid buffs? I know we get some resist from Gift of the Wild but does it stack with CoS?

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