I ran with the Thunder Capacitor for a while when I was leveling (several hours, at least), because I was curious if poisons procced spell effects. I never saw it proc, though I also never did any formal testing on it.

Helping a friend with a Muti PvE spec

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

What would you change?

To this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Or Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft if you have no Ret Pallies or Elem Shamans

Something like this:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

He definitely should max focused attacks. Whether he picks up master poisoner or Turn the Tables depends on whether there will be a ret paladin or elemental shaman in his raid. If neither, he should get master poisoner, otherwise turn the tables.

Also, if he is going for pure 100% raid dps, he shouldn't get vigor. I personally like it because it is very helpful outside of raids, and provides a marginal benefit in raids, but there are other talents that can help in raids more.

Sound advice. He'd really like to have Imp. SnD, but is that really neccessary? He says he's got problems keeping it up with his rotation. So something suggest the rotation could be improved.

What would you suggest?

Imp snd is completely unnecessary for a mutilate build. If he is having trouble keeping it up, he is likely using his abilities with the completely wrong priority. Frankly, efficient mutilate dpsing is fairly complex, and requires quit a bit of practice to become comfortable.

Send him over here to read the pocket guide, there's an explanation of how to dps there. You don't use a set rotation, you use a priority queue.

I, and other rogues I know, just mutilate at the start then snd.

Garrote and shiv don't give as many cp, so your initial snd doesn't last as long. If the mutilate crits, even if the target isn't poisoned (unlikely considering hunter stings count), the extra time on snd lets you start your cycle more quickly. I can usually get 4 cp, rupture, and get another 4 cp before having to envenom to refresh snd.

Hm, so is that to say garroting in general would be a total waste, and to just basically stay unstealthed and go right into it with mutilate?

No, I believe a Garrote or even a Ambush would generate more DPS than a un-poisoned Mutilate.

You cant always assume a Serpent Sting will be up on your target as you begin a cycle.

Make sure you start from stealth. If you're in stealth, you can almost instantly Mutilate, Mutilate, and SnD, only limited by the GCD, thanks to Overkill.

Against a fresh and no-debuff target, Garotte is better DPE. But that DPE is more than offset by the CP/cycle advantage you get by two Mutilates right at the start.

In general, I find that waiting for the tank to head in, stealthing up behind the boss, and using Garrote is generally incompatible with keeping Hunger for Blood up. Or, perhaps, I'm generally incompatible with keeping Hunger for Blood up.

Using Garrote isn't a total waste, but most of the time, it seems easier to run up unstealthed, meaning you have a lot of Hunger for Blood uptime left, start with an un-poisoned Mutilate, get maybe 2 CPs, and have a good long SnD.

And, of course, most bosses are immune to the silencing effect of Garrote. I'd actually probably rather use Ambush if starting from stealth, though mostly I had been going in unstealthed (just respecced to combat after picking up Crimson Steel in Naxx10 the other night...no, I'm not on the bleeding edge).

I really want to reiterate that you still should start from stealth!

You can stealth up close to the boss, put a ToTT on the tank and refresh your HfB right before the pull, rush the boss with full energy, take advantage of Overkill, and get a huge jump start on your cycle. You don't even need to wait for the tank to take as wing, just unload*.

Obviously, don't get detected when stealthing, but you have quite a bit of leeway before you have to worry about that.

*As long as you aren't fighting Patchwerk, of course .

Has anyone been able to pull off a KS during Thaddius without killing themselves or someone else? If so, was it during the transition? I did it one time (non-transition) and nuked myself causing us to miss the achievement and I have been afraid of testing it during a transition since then.

Mutilate dps actually looks alot harder than it is. Especially when you have the rupture and SnD glyphs to give you more time to work on your cycle. As well as your gear improves it gets easier due to higher energy regen/more cps from crits. I've been mutilate for about a week and while the initial learning curve is a bit steep compared to combat, it gets dramatically easier once you adjust to having two 25 second buffs to watch (SnD and HfB).

Also I cheat and use rogue powerbars (or some such name) as my addon to track SnD, DP stacks, and HfB since it puts them out on my screen away from the other mess of buffs/debuffs so it's easier to keep track of them. I probably refresh my HfB more than I should but that's a reflex from the bad old days of Rampage where if you missed an oppurtunity to refresh RNG could screw you out of the buff later.

In essence follow the steps in the how to thread. The hardest thing for me to do was adjust to using "four plus" combo point finishers, instead of always holding for five, with rupture and Envenom. However since Mut costs 60 energy it just isn't efficient or effective to always hold out for 5 since you are "wasting" one.

Now that I think about it, I could use shiv for the 5th point (especially with the current double poison proc bug favoring putting my Webbed Death in my offhand) since my energy generation is fairly strong these days.

Don't use shiv. The difference between a 4 and 5 pt envenom is very small, since it scales the same with your ap regardless of combo points, and the base dmg difference is only 200 or something small like that. The energy spent on shiv would result in less dps, and it would be just something extra to worry about.

I don't even have shiv on my bars actually.

I would stay away from KS in general on fights where positioning is crucial..

KS ports you to the center of the boss. On thaddius any time not during a transition, that will get you killed. During a transition it won't kill you if you use it as soon as you get the safety buff, but you'll likely die shortly after since ks lasts 2.5 seconds and the transition is about 4 seconds if I recall... that's a very short amount of time to get to max melee distance, especially if you're disoriented from ks.

I use KS on Thaddius during a transition in which I will have to move. If I don't need to swap sides, I don't pop KS.

Worked every time so far.

Are you aware you can stack HFB while stealthed?

Hello! Long time reader, first time poster here.

First of all I'd like to thank some of the posters here for all the valuable information posted here, it's been a great help in figuring out stuff I've been too lazy to test on hours myself.

I'm wondering about the new "rotations" in wotlk raiding. While I know it hasn't changed too much since TBC, I'm wondering about the priority of the skills in our rotation.

I've read the pocket guide, and the way I understood it, apart from always keeping SnD up, the second most important will be Rupture. I'm having problems keeping both up 100% at the moment, mainly because doing so would mean capping energy for several seconds. I guess this is where envenom or eviscerate comes into the equation. The question, then, is this; is it imperative to always keep rupture as close to a 100% uptime as possible, even if it means using evis/envenom at 2 combo points when rupture has, say 8 seconds left, or should I try to pool energy, maybe capping out waiting for rupture to run out, and then reapply rupture? The last scenario would be to just try and keep rupture up, but perhaps with a 1-6 sec downtime due to using a 4/5 cp envenom or eviscerate insted of capping energy.

I have been trying different rotations on the target dummies in orgrimmar, but I feel like I'm not getting very consistent results. My stats are ~3.5K AP, 33% crit, ~200 hit, capped expertise and 3/5 T7.25.

I can't for the most time just reapply rupture when it has 1-4 seconds left anyway, since trinket/weapon enchant procs on the previous rupture means that "A more powerful spell is active". I might be a bit long winded here, but I'm trying to explain as well as I can, and english is not my native language.

Thanks for any advice.

Editing; I just tried a 10 min fight at the ?? Boss training dummy now, and SnD was always up, rupture fell off a couple of times for just a few seconds due to using eviscerate instead of capping my energy. I managed 1900 DPS not using any buffs or AR/BF/KS, just poisons. Should I be a lot higher, or is this "ok"? I'm using Calamity's Grasp as a main hand and Hatestrike OH, rest of my gear is above.

Rupture 'uptime' is irrelevant. It is your highest damage finisher if the mob doesn't already have rupture ticking. If rupture is ticking already, then it is not your highest damage finisher, due to being unavailiable or clipping. So you use your second highest, which is Eviscerate. If, on the other hand, you can pool energy and use rupture before capping, well, that'll be more damage.

High rupture uptime will result, but it's not the goal.

Great, thanks. I guess it's all about making the gap between ruptures as small as possible, then.