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Old 05/30/09, 10:14 AM   #3046
evildagger666
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Hi im a combat rogue and was wondering if since im hit capped should i use AP gems or AGI Gems. I have looked at some other threads and it seems to be marginal or each has a different thing to say. Thankyou.

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Old 05/30/09, 10:27 AM   #3047
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by evildagger666 View Post
Hi im a combat rogue and was wondering if since im hit capped should i use AP gems or AGI Gems. I have looked at some other threads and it seems to be marginal or each has a different thing to say. Thankyou.

Depends on gear. Spreadsheet. Agi will be clearly ahead with the T8 4pc bonus. Armor Pen starts to move up too towards BiS items.

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Old 05/30/09, 2:46 PM   #3048
eikikuri
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Quick Question about Set Bonuses, Would 4piece 7.5 outweigh the 2piece bonus for 7.5 and 8. Assuming i had 2 for both would it be a better idea to keep the 4piece bonus or take the 2 of each while i slowly build up to full 4piece T8?

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Old 05/30/09, 3:01 PM   #3049
Lightshadow
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by mofidik View Post
Hey there folks, I've run into a bit of an anecdotal problem and I hope someone could shed some light on it.

Like advised here, I run combat with wound/deadly, with deadly poison on my off-hand (webbed death). This all seemed right in theory, but in practise it's a rather common occurrence for my entire stack to fall off even on (semi)-static fights, such as Ignis, Archevon, XT and the likes. From what I can tell I actually run with a rather obsessive amount of hit (404 of the top of my head, armory's on its butt again) with a draenei aura on top of that.

As anecdotal as "it falls of sometimes" is, I hope at least someone could give pointers about something that could cause this, or a way to solve it. I got the WWS log of one night's Ulduar25 PuG (9/14), if that helps.
DP does indeed fall off from time to time, even with perfect play and lots of +hit -- it's just a function of the RNG. That being said, I'm not sure it's an issue to be 'solved' per se -- it's unfortunate, but there aren't really any better options. All of the spreadsheets I know of already take this possibility into account, and even given the possibility it's still better to run WP MH/DP OH than anything else (as a combat rogue). Before the recent nerf to shiv there were times when it was worthwhile to shiv at the very last second if your DP was about to fall off, but I very much doubt that's true now.

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Old 05/30/09, 3:32 PM   #3050
Lyphe
Von Kaiser
 
Lyphe's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by eikikuri View Post
Quick Question about Set Bonuses, Would 4piece 7.5 outweigh the 2piece bonus for 7.5 and 8. Assuming i had 2 for both would it be a better idea to keep the 4piece bonus or take the 2 of each while i slowly build up to full 4piece T8?
The only way to know for sure is to plug in your gear to the spreadsheet.

For my scenario (combat), I found that the damage output from 2x7.5 combined with 2x8.0 outweighed the output from 4x7.5. After I later got my third piece of 8.0, I stuck it in the bank until I got a fourth piece so that I was never running without 2 set bonus' at any time.

It should be noted that I did find PVP to be the exception. For PVP, I reverted back to 4x7.5 instead of the combo 7.5 + 8.0 since the 5% energy discount was too good to give up.

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Old 05/30/09, 4:32 PM   #3051
MassMan
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Ravencrest (EU)
I tried googling and searching this forum for an answer but I came up short...

Does Killing Spree benefit from a slow offhand? (ignoring the obvious drawback of a slow offhand for Combat Potency)

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Old 05/30/09, 4:51 PM   #3052
Feist-Mok
It's just a sausage.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by MassMan View Post
I tried googling and searching this forum for an answer but I came up short...

Does Killing Spree benefit from a slow offhand? (ignoring the obvious drawback of a slow offhand for Combat Potency)
yes. The net change once the GCD of the swap is taken into account (along with the negatives of having a slow OH on for ~4 seconds) is generally regarded to be a DPS loss.

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Old 05/30/09, 7:03 PM   #3053
Varg
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Stormscale (EU)
People already switch in a secondary slow offhand with wound poison in PvP, and it adds a substantial amount of damage due to offhand normally using crippling poison.

If your deadly stack is already at 5, and you're not losing it during weapon swapping slow wound offhand, it will probably be a dps boost, but it requires timing and is probably hard to model correctly.

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Old 05/30/09, 9:49 PM   #3054
 Jellinator
Bounty Hunter
 
Jellinator's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Turalyon (EU)
Edit: Someone replied between my reseach and posting, ouch! Sorry for a mid response question!

This is a question about Expose Armor, usually a rotation to avoid, but since the guild has no prot warriors available currently and the dps warriors (probably quite rightly) don't incorporate sunder into their normal rotation when no prot is present, i have little choice but to adapt.

I'll begin with stating the obvious.
Pre 3.1(/2?) Expose used to remove the same armor as a 5 point sunder if 5 combos were also used. It would last for 30 seconds no matter what.
Now it removes 20% of the targets armor as standard but lasts for up to 30 seconds depending on the points used up, a change i assume was made because Ulduar bosses have more armor and a 3k reduction would be irrelevant. Fine, no issues.

Questions are these:

- Should a rogue use a 5 point expose or should a dps stack sunders if no prot is present in the raid group?
- Does Expose remove more than 20% armor based on the armor pen of the Rogue?
- Is there any real reason aside the above as to why a 5 point Expose always overrules a 5 point Sunder?

If the answers were told before and I've missed in this 100-odd page thread apologies but given the recent patch change I'm not convinced they'd still apply?

Before someone says it, I don't need to be told that using Expose is going to eat into my DPS but since I'm leading it nobodys going to kick me :p

Any advice appreciated

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Old 05/30/09, 10:02 PM   #3055
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Jellinator View Post
Edit: Someone replied between my reseach and posting, ouch! Sorry for a mid response question!

This is a question about Expose Armor, usually a rotation to avoid, but since the guild has no prot warriors available currently and the dps warriors (probably quite rightly) don't incorporate sunder into their normal rotation when no prot is present, i have little choice but to adapt.

I'll begin with stating the obvious.
Pre 3.1(/2?) Expose used to remove the same armor as a 5 point sunder if 5 combos were also used. It would last for 30 seconds no matter what.
Now it removes 20% of the targets armor as standard but lasts for up to 30 seconds depending on the points used up, a change i assume was made because Ulduar bosses have more armor and a 3k reduction would be irrelevant. Fine, no issues.

Questions are these:

- Should a rogue use a 5 point expose or should a dps stack sunders if no prot is present in the raid group?
- Does Expose remove more than 20% armor based on the armor pen of the Rogue?
- Is there any real reason aside the above as to why a 5 point Expose always overrules a 5 point Sunder?

If the answers were told before and I've missed in this 100-odd page thread apologies but given the recent patch change I'm not convinced they'd still apply?

Before someone says it, I don't need to be told that using Expose is going to eat into my DPS but since I'm leading it nobodys going to kick me :p

Any advice appreciated

Read The Major Armor debuff

The change was made to more standardize Armor Pen, so doing that on low armor stuff doesn't exponentially benefit as much. The Ulduar/Naxx/etc boss all had their armor value changed so removing 20% was the same as removing that "3K" of armor before, so net effect pretty much remained the same.

- Depends on length of fight, Sunder is easier to maintain but longer ramp up time. I believe the thread concluded if it's less that 81 seconds, use Expose Armor, otherwise, Sunder. Doesn't even have to be a 5 point, prob 2+ points will do, get it up fast, work into a cycle from there.
- No of course not
- They are the same armor reduction, though they can't sunder if you exposed already. So don't do it if you're gonna let them ramp it up.

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Old 05/30/09, 10:16 PM   #3056
 Jellinator
Bounty Hunter
 
Jellinator's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by saedo View Post
Read The Major Armor debuff

- They are the same armor reduction, though they can't sunder if you exposed already. So don't do it if you're gonna let them ramp it up.
Will do cheers, still don't really understand why Expose always wipes out Sunder though if they both remove the same

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Old 05/30/09, 10:20 PM   #3057
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Jellinator View Post
Will do cheers, still don't really understand why Expose always wipes out Sunder though if they both remove the same
They remove the same in the end. Expose tacks on a 20% armor reduction off the bat. Sunder throws it on 4% at a time. So, they'll get that "A more powerful spell is already active".

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Old 05/30/09, 10:29 PM   #3058
 Jellinator
Bounty Hunter
 
Jellinator's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Turalyon (EU)
Understood, appreciated (last time i ask questions at 3am >.<)

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Old 05/30/09, 11:32 PM   #3059
Cetyrz
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Norgannon
Hi all I have been running Mutilate since I hit lvl 80. Unforetunately I haven't seen a lot of raiding and have only recently been running Naxx25 PuGs on my server. They are great for the most part and I really enjoy them but last week I couldn't get into a 25 PuG so I ran a 10 man. The hatestrike dropped and I won the roll and I also have an Avools Sword of Jin in my bank thanks to the AH. I run a combat spec (though it needs to be changed as its more for farming dailies) as my dual spec and i wanted to try it out in raids now I have two capable (enough) swords for the job. I was just wondering what a typical combat rotation would be though. As I am mutialte I currently have daggers, I tried it out a little in Naxx and got no where near the same DPS as my mutilate build on Patchwerk which made me wonder if I was doing it wrong.

I typically open with a garotte, Shiv to get the buff from poisoning a target, then SS, SnD, SS Evis, SS SnD etcetc. I was wondering what a normal rotation for a combat rogue might be, and I'll give it a go.

Sorry if this has been asked a million times, still getting used to lurking haha.

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Old 05/30/09, 11:35 PM   #3060
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Cetyrz View Post
I typically open with a garotte, Shiv to get the buff from poisoning a target, then SS, SnD, SS Evis, SS SnD etcetc. I was wondering what a normal rotation for a combat rogue might be, and I'll give it a go.
Read http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-p...updated_3_1_a/

Don't shiv.

Use spreadsheets for specifics.

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