Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 250

evoslayer · 08/25/09, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kmannkoopa

Hoping to get opinions on this:

So what do you guys think is the best spec for a rogue if you are dealing with significant (but constant) lag?

HaT is the most likely to waste dps though lag, as you are at constant risk of CP capping, Energy capping at least generally takes at least 5 seconds from 0 energy even as combat, with HaT you can CP cap in an instant, Mutilate has the slowest energy regen but you are at risk of letting slice and dice drop if you try a dynamic cycle, Honestly you cant really expect to do good dps at 900 ms, if you can keep energy from capping I would say go combat, and try to maintain a predetermined cycle like 5s5r5e

drag0nius · 08/26/09, 7:41 AM

Could somebody do some more professional research about rogue energy regeneration? Or at least tell me what could i improve in my method.

I used HyperCam2 60 fps recording and Windows Movie Maker to check frames, but still got some strange result deviations, recording at training dummies in Ironforge, using 31/33/0 build without any other energy modifiers than Overkill and Vitality.
Generally i cut video in 2 places, at time i use Sinister Strike at 110 energy and at time i reach 110 energy again (using more SSes around 60 energy)

EDIT:
Counted everything again after respeccing and testing on manekins for 30 to 130 second fights. Every combination of Overkill/Vitality gives simply 100% + Overkill% + Vitality%, results were surprising accurate for so long fights (+/- 0,5% regen rate). For Adrenaline Rush it's bit more random, cause it showed 25,7 EPS, but i think it was just my mistake and it should be 25,5.
Maybe constantly i made some mistake for first 2 days, or maybe they fixed it during today's maintenance.
However, short records (up to 20 sec fighting) give noticable higher results (always higher, never lower), made ticket about that and waiting for answer.

Barlow · 08/27/09, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by Druss

OK - question for you (or anyone who knows) then:

Does SnD do anything during Kiling Spree or not? If it does i'll trigger it before I KS. If it doesn't I may as well burn all initial pre KS energy on SS and NOT trigger SnD until after since it will be wasted seconds of SnD time. Basically I don't know a lot about what can be done during KS to up the damage and what is wasted effort - e.g. does your regular melee continue and get the 20% damage bonus and can you SS during it? Can KS trigger sword spec procs etc?

You will still be performing white Hits during Killing Spree, but you won't be able to use any Skills or Special Attacks during KS. Since KS Boosts all Damage done, you should use it with SND up. It can proc both Combat Potency and Sword/Axe Procs (als well as any other hit based procs and Poisons).

ShadowEric · 08/27/09, 8:28 AM

But does SnD really affect the 0.5s time between attacks of Killing Spree? If not, there's no reason to have it up that I can see. But maybe I'm missing something. I was under the impression haste didn't affect KS.

• Maestroquark · 08/27/09, 8:34 AM

You're still performing white attacks. They're still affected by haste.

Kirothen · 08/27/09, 12:23 PM

I had a couple questions that we have been debating in guild over some rogue mechanics I hope I can get an answer to:

1.) Are auto attacks active during Killing Spree. This question arose when discussing a rotation with KS and I was saving a SnD refresh for after KS but the other combat rogue said that he always keeps SnD up during KS for increased damage due to auto attacks still being active.

2.) I recently gemmed all ArP and am seeing a significant increase in DPS, mostly in burst. I am concerned though since currently im sitting on 570ish passive ArP. When my Runestone procs and I gain the 600 or so more ArP, how much passive ArP should I have to avoid being capped out and losing out on top end dps. Do diminishing returns apply when say at over 85% ArP? What is the official ArP cap either total or armor reduction percentage.

3.) I read somewhere recently about a white crit cap. Just wondering what this is. I have currently about 41% passive crit due to the fact that I dropped all my agi gems for ArP but im still sitting at about 53% crit fully raid buffed. What is this cap?

Thanks for reading my "quick" questions lol. These answers will significantly help out our raid and are appreciated big time.

Kiro

Tinwhisker · 08/27/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kirothen

2.) I recently gemmed all ArP and am seeing a significant increase in DPS, mostly in burst. I am concerned though since currently im sitting on 570ish passive ArP. When my Runestone procs and I gain the 600 or so more ArP, how much passive ArP should I have to avoid being capped out and losing out on top end dps. Do diminishing returns apply when say at over 85% ArP? What is the official ArP cap either total or armor reduction percentage.

3.) I read somewhere recently about a white crit cap. Just wondering what this is. I have currently about 41% passive crit due to the fact that I dropped all my agi gems for ArP but im still sitting at about 53% crit fully raid buffed. What is this cap?

ArP is increasingly valuable until you reach the hard cap of 1232 rating, at which point any more is worthless. With Mjolnir's proc of 665 ArP the "soft cap" for passive ArP from your other gear is 567. You can probably go over this by a small amount but after that you will have to consult one of the spreadsheets to determine whether to gem differently, change trinkets, or something else.

The white crit cap is the point at which your white melee attacks cannot benefit anymore from any additional crit from rating or agility. To determine this:

Crit Cap = 100% + 4.8% boss crit reduction - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance

Vrak88 · 08/28/09, 4:52 PM

I picked up [Daschal's Bite] the other night because no one else is the raided wanted it. Since then I am quite confused. Currently, I am Combat 15/51/5 with [Calamity's Grasp] and [Webbed Death]. Would switching to Mutilate with DB/WD be more DPS or am I just as well off staying with CG/WB and Combat?

My next question is will Mutilate with DB/WD surpass CH/WD as Comabt once 3.2.2 comes out with the changes to the Assassination tree?

Rambaral · 08/28/09, 6:02 PM

My guild has been running into trouble on faction champs 25. While I don't expect to single-handedly turn the tide, I feel I might be better suited to help with a build that is different than usual combat spec. I'm allergic to PVP so my experience in that facet of the class is slim. Would a build that favors more of the subtley talents be better, or should I try to get more burst with a mut spec?

Thrown spec is being spoken highly of on tankspot, but I'm not convinced screwing up CC is worth the interrupts.

Tinwhisker · 08/28/09, 9:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rambaral

My guild has been running into trouble on faction champs 25. While I don't expect to single-handedly turn the tide, I feel I might be better suited to help with a build that is different than usual combat spec. I'm allergic to PVP so my experience in that facet of the class is slim. Would a build that favors more of the subtley talents be better, or should I try to get more burst with a mut spec?

Thrown spec is being spoken highly of on tankspot, but I'm not convinced screwing up CC is worth the interrupts.

Throwing spec isn't needed for the faction champions and neither is any type of PvP spec. Equipping your PvP trinket is probably worthwhile but other than that there's isn't much to be gained.

The best way to deal with faction champions is to simply outplay them. As a rogue it should be your job to either help burn down the main assist target or to "lock down" one of the casters. The easiest NPC for you to deal with is probably the holy paladin; between interrupts, incapacitates and stuns you won't be able to kill them but they won't be able to do anything either.

If you're really having trouble with the faction champions is likely that quite a few in your raid are "tunnel visioning" and not paying attention to what's going on. Classes that can peel should be peeling melee off your healers and classes that can CC should be rotating the worst targets. You need two minutes of good coordination, a couple dead NPCs and then five minutes of face-rolling the rest.

Grunge · 08/29/09, 2:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rambaral

My guild has been running into trouble on faction champs 25. While I don't expect to single-handedly turn the tide, I feel I might be better suited to help with a build that is different than usual combat spec. I'm allergic to PVP so my experience in that facet of the class is slim. Would a build that favors more of the subtley talents be better, or should I try to get more burst with a mut spec?

Thrown spec is being spoken highly of on tankspot, but I'm not convinced screwing up CC is worth the interrupts.

I have to disagree with Tinwhisker on Throwing Specialization, it can be incredibly useful at Faction Champions depending on your strategy.

We had 3 rogues, each on one of the healers, while trying to FoK any other opportunity targets in the range, and it has pretty much cemented my thoughts on FC being the most boring fight in the instance.

Although you don't need FoK to do this, simply assigning 1-2 interrupters per healer is enough to stop the majority of the damage while the rest of the raid can take care of the dps.

Either way, with the healers locked down, the rest fall shortly.

If you opt to go for a "CC/Burn one" strategy, you might consider HaT, it excels at single target fights.

Linstar · 08/29/09, 4:06 AM

If you have three rogues, fok is completely unnecessary. A rogue should be able to lock down a healer by himself with kick, gouge, and kidney shot if you're not being cced. You also have blind and vanish for sticky situations.

Grunge · 08/29/09, 5:18 AM

Originally Posted by Linstar

If you have three rogues, fok is completely unnecessary. A rogue should be able to lock down a healer by himself with kick, gouge, and kidney shot if you're not being cced. You also have blind and vanish for sticky situations.

Yes obviously that's possible. But then you're spending energy on abilities that don't really provide damage.

Sure you'll be able to Sinister here and there, but considering that my avg FoK on FC hits on avg for 1.3k per target (WP, Mh, Oh, not counting potential DP ticks on multiple targets), while my SS avg hit was for 1.9k.

So having 3 or more targets in range, it's more beneficial to still FoK, even with the AoE dmg reduction aura.
Deadly on multiple targets is quite nice as well.

I don't think you realize that the point isn't to lock down just ONE healer, but any of the caster dps near them as well.
Also I'd like to mention that on n25 the caster damage is quite laughable, but on heroic, 13-14k Frostbolts from the mage can be very very painful when coupled with hunter or the rogue bursting as well.

Regardless, it all depends on the strategy you decide to execute.

Chuchutta · 08/29/09, 6:51 AM

Deleted

Valustria · 08/29/09, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chuchutta

I thought I may have read something about this before, but am unable to find it again. As combat is it worthwhile to shiv if DP is about to fall off? This doesn't happen to often to me but I have noticed it a few times.

Conventional wisdom says don't ever Shiv.