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Old 12/13/08, 6:36 PM   #651
Darkwyng
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Eldre'Thalas
Stupid question:

Berserking can proc on both weapons at the same time just like Mongoose could right?

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Old 12/13/08, 7:29 PM   #652
inph
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkwyng View Post
Stupid question:

Berserking can proc on both weapons at the same time just like Mongoose could right?
Yes Berserking can proc on both weapons at the same time.

Comparing Sleightt vs Aldriana's wws: 2 Tricks of the Trade vs 14. Your raid doesnt appear to have anyone providing trauma or mangle debuff for bleeds. Also there doesnt appear to be a 10% ap buff (Abominable Might/Trueshot Aura/Unleashed Rage). The latter being a rather substantial boost to physical dps.

Last edited by inph : 12/13/08 at 7:34 PM.

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Old 12/13/08, 7:49 PM   #653
Jugias
Glass Joe
 
Jugias
Undead Rogue
 
Aegwynn
I have a question about Cold Blood, and when i should be using it.

What is better? to use it on mutilate or envenom?

If i use it on mutilate it does help me with some cp generation at the same time.

Edit: Seems impossible to get an answer for this question, seen it asked many times but never an answer.

Last edited by Jugias : 12/14/08 at 7:30 AM.

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Old 12/13/08, 8:44 PM   #654
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Note that that 14 Tricks numbers is a bit deceptive, as each usage of Tricks shows up 3 times in the long. I believe if you actually pull the parse apart, it appears that Escoffier and I each used Tricks on the other 5 times. Which is certainly a DPS increase, but it's on the order of 100 DPS apiece, and is thus not a major part of the difference.

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Old 12/13/08, 11:46 PM   #655
Sleightt
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Greymane
Yeah, I hadn't even checked on whether or not I was missing those specific buffs. Another thing that I'm starting to think is about how low my expertise is. I have 75 expertise rating total, and you have 214. I'm thinking that this is a significant part of my DPS loss, so I guess I'll just gem differently.

Edit: One thing I was wondering concerning expertise was about gemming. I see a lot of people having gear that has, for example, 16 expertise in a red socket, then somewhere else on their gear (in another red socket) they have AP/AGI. I'm just wondering about this since according to the current EP values, the AP/AGI come out to more than the expertise gems. I know to obviously stop gemming for expertise after the cap, but wasn't it said that we shouldn't need to gem for that, and just use whatever comes out to be a higher EP value? I hope what I'm asking makes sense.

I know questions about gems have been asked a ton of times already, but I havn't found any reason to do this, so I'm just curious.

Last edited by Sleightt : 12/14/08 at 12:49 AM.

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Old 12/14/08, 12:50 AM   #656
ohnoes
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Sleightt View Post
Yeah, I hadn't even checked on whether or not I was missing those specific buffs. Another thing that I'm starting to think is about how low my expertise is. I have 75 expertise rating total, and you have 214. I'm thinking that this is a significant part of my DPS loss, so I guess I'll just gem differently.
Just because he gems differently doesn't mean you are going to do 600 more dps. It doesn't work like that, most likely you were missing a good dps buff, I know one week our pallys forgot to give rogues might and I was doing 400 less dps then I usually do and had to ask for it mid fight.

Just use the spreadsheet if you'd like to know how to gem.

I know expertise is a great stat for Mutilate, but at the same time so is AP/AGI. I know there are good expertise boots/bracers from Nax and an expertise chest off Malygos. Personally, I really don't feel like regemming everything expertise for not even a 1 DPS gain when I can just get those items (hopefully) later if they drop.

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Old 12/14/08, 1:13 AM   #657
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
It's also worth noting that 3 of the pieces I'm currently wearing I picked up after PW this week. Though my Expertise was pretty high even before. I do think it's a slightly better stat that the spreadsheet makes it out to be, but, again, it won't make 100 DPS difference, much less 1000.

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Old 12/14/08, 3:11 AM   #658
Muze
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by ohnoes View Post
Just because he gems differently doesn't mean you are going to do 600 more dps. It doesn't work like that, most likely you were missing a good dps buff, I know one week our pallys forgot to give rogues might and I was doing 400 less dps then I usually do and had to ask for it mid fight.

Just use the spreadsheet if you'd like to know how to gem.

I know expertise is a great stat for Mutilate, but at the same time so is AP/AGI. I know there are good expertise boots/bracers from Nax and an expertise chest off Malygos. Personally, I really don't feel like regemming everything expertise for not even a 1 DPS gain when I can just get those items (hopefully) later if they drop.
Just out of curiosity Ohnoes, what kind of dps are you doing on PW? Or maybe you have a wws you could share. I'm curious since you have most of best in slot items and continue to use the 2pc Slayer bonus and have relatively low expertise.

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Old 12/14/08, 8:40 AM   #659
ohnoes
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Muze View Post
Just out of curiosity Ohnoes, what kind of dps are you doing on PW? Or maybe you have a wws you could share. I'm curious since you have most of best in slot items and continue to use the 2pc Slayer bonus and have relatively low expertise.
I use 2pc Slayer still because we have yet to have any of the leather DPS items from 25man drop, I know my expertise is low, but if and when they do drop my expertise will be fine so I'm not to worried about that.

As for patch, we haven't had a serious kill in 2 weeks, last week we had people die upon on the pull and the week before I didn't have might until like 50% or something when I realized my DPS was 500 below my previous week. Hopefully this Tuesday we can have a serious attempt.

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Old 12/14/08, 9:25 AM   #660
Pussalia
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Bloodscalp
Hello, I'm currently using a 51/13/7 spec, with some so-so pre-naxx gear. What I'm wondering is how people with similar specs find themselves doing damage-wise on trash. I've found that I'm getting thoroughly embarassed on trash with my damage/dps, probably doing like 1200-1300 depending on the instance...but I've been around 1800-1900 on bosses(assuming they aren't anti-melee which everything seems to be nowadays). I know the basic rotations, keep hfb fully stacked and snd up, and I usually don't bother with rupture on trash since the mobs die fast anyway and I use envenom instead. I'm hoping it's just because I'm still undergeared, but coming from someone who used to be top 3 dps back in the BT days, being behind the tank on trash damage is really irritating me. Should I be doing something different on trash?

Just some basic stats;

2300 AP unbuffed
255 hit
1.4/1.3 weapons
23% crit

Thanks

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Old 12/14/08, 10:53 AM   #661
Muze
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by ohnoes View Post
I use 2pc Slayer still because we have yet to have any of the leather DPS items from 25man drop, I know my expertise is low, but if and when they do drop my expertise will be fine so I'm not to worried about that.

As for patch, we haven't had a serious kill in 2 weeks, last week we had people die upon on the pull and the week before I didn't have might until like 50% or something when I realized my DPS was 500 below my previous week. Hopefully this Tuesday we can have a serious attempt.
Thanks for the response. I thought maybe the 2pc Slayer bonus was still worth holding onto even at this point.

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Old 12/14/08, 5:40 PM   #662
chalon
Founder of the Chalonverse
 
Chalon
Night Elf Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Pussalia View Post
Hello, I'm currently using a 51/13/7 spec, with some so-so pre-naxx gear. What I'm wondering is how people with similar specs find themselves doing damage-wise on trash. I've found that I'm getting thoroughly embarassed on trash with my damage/dps, probably doing like 1200-1300 depending on the instance...but I've been around 1800-1900 on bosses(assuming they aren't anti-melee which everything seems to be nowadays). I know the basic rotations, keep hfb fully stacked and snd up, and I usually don't bother with rupture on trash since the mobs die fast anyway and I use envenom instead. I'm hoping it's just because I'm still undergeared, but coming from someone who used to be top 3 dps back in the BT days, being behind the tank on trash damage is really irritating me. Should I be doing something different on trash?

Just some basic stats;

2300 AP unbuffed
255 hit
1.4/1.3 weapons
23% crit

Thanks
When everything is being AE'd, you just aren't going to be competitive on trash DPS, especially not as Mutilate. Do the damage you can do, FoK when the CD is up, but that's about it. You aren't going to be top 10 on most trash pulls.

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Old 12/14/08, 6:04 PM   #663
royaljester
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Destromath
I looked through some and even searched, but didn't see it, so I thought I'd add it in for those looking.

An easy TotT macro that will put it on your focus and whisper them. Useful for when you're tank doesnt need it anymore.

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cast [target=focus] Tricks of the Trade
/script SendChatMessage("TotT on you!","WHISPER" , nil,UnitName("focus"));

took a while to figure it out so you didnt have to put in "/w person TotT on yoU!" for each person you changed. Hope I'm not putting in after someone else :\

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Old 12/14/08, 8:48 PM   #664
yea its me
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightninghoof
I havent looked much but is there a definte number area that combat rogues want to get to for being hit capped? Or is being hit capped not really important anymore? I was thinking like 620 or something for a hit cap with how much im missing at 280.

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Old 12/14/08, 8:52 PM   #665
MasterDinadan
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Staghelm
Originally Posted by yea its me View Post
I havent looked much but is there a definte number area that combat rogues want to get to for being hit capped? Or is being hit capped not really important anymore? I was thinking like 620 or something for a hit cap with how much im missing at 280.
280 is fine. More than enough really. You don't need to gem for hit. As long as you are special hit cap, then hit rating is a so-so stat, not something to prioritize.
People need to figure out that "hit cap" is a maximum. It is not a minimum, not even a goal you should aim for.

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Old 12/14/08, 9:59 PM   #666
Chappi
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Twisting Nether
Quick Recovery vs Murder vs Improved Evisc. It seems as though all 3 talents have limited uses in PvE. I find Quick Recovery helpful when characters are under the expertise cap. Murder is great in most instances, but lacks warrant in Naxx. Improved Eviscerate shines more in 5-mans or when DP stacks seem to be lacking.
In order to avoid respec'ing on a constant basis, what would you recommend?

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Old 12/14/08, 10:16 PM   #667
Antiarc
Still alive
 
Antiarc's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by yea its me View Post
I havent looked much but is there a definte number area that combat rogues want to get to for being hit capped? Or is being hit capped not really important anymore? I was thinking like 620 or something for a hit cap with how much im missing at 280.
As per the pocket guide, you want at least the yellow hit cap, and if you have extra hit up to the poison cap, it's quite decent. Past the poison cap, it becomes far less valuable.

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Old 12/14/08, 11:01 PM   #668
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by rwlz View Post
Mutilate to 5 CP then
Change this part to "4 or more CP"

Also, if you're trying to compare spreadsheet to target dummies, you probably want to turn off all buffs.

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Old 12/14/08, 11:27 PM   #669
Neto-
Bald Bull
 
Neto-'s Avatar
 
wut
Gnome Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Chappi View Post
Quick Recovery vs Murder vs Improved Evisc. It seems as though all 3 talents have limited uses in PvE. I find Quick Recovery helpful when characters are under the expertise cap. Murder is great in most instances, but lacks warrant in Naxx. Improved Eviscerate shines more in 5-mans or when DP stacks seem to be lacking.
In order to avoid respec'ing on a constant basis, what would you recommend?
Get Murder, as it has a significant effect on the bosses that are susceptible to it, unlike QR and Imp Eviscerate. I'd consider QR if you have low expertise, though, but that's unlikely.

Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty

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Old 12/15/08, 11:52 AM   #670
candlegarden
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Frostmane (EU)
What is the best bang for your emblems of heroism/valor?

I know it depends on what piece you are replacing actually; replacing T5 boots instead of replacing T6 belt will definetely be worth a lot more and one can use the spread sheet/s to find out what upgrade they should aim for.

But that's not what I'm interested in. What I want to ask is, has anyone worked out a table of AEP per emblem or DPS per emblem? Would be great if it exists and someone points me the right direction.

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Old 12/15/08, 11:55 AM   #671
Feist-Mok
Bald Bull
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by candlegarden View Post
What is the best bang for your emblems of heroism/valor?
The only truly irreplaceable item is the [Mirror of Truth]

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Old 12/15/08, 11:59 AM   #672
Leto
King Hippo
 
Leito
Troll Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by candlegarden View Post
What is the best bang for your emblems of heroism/valor?

I know it depends on what piece you are replacing actually; replacing T5 boots instead of replacing T6 belt will definetely be worth a lot more and one can use the spread sheet/s to find out what upgrade they should aim for.

But that's not what I'm interested in. What I want to ask is, has anyone worked out a table of AEP per emblem or DPS per emblem? Would be great if it exists and someone points me the right direction.
There are way too many factors to make the decision based on an aep weighting.

For example, if you're going for a set bonus, one of the tier pieces may be more valuable. If you don't have access to heroic raid content, then the neck will be very good as well as it is on par with anything from the normal raids for the most part, etc, etc.

It doesn't only matter what items you are upgrading from, but what you plan to get next and the time frame you are looking at.

Rogue at heart.

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Old 12/15/08, 2:12 PM   #673
Chappi
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Twisting Nether
Pooling Energy

Pooling energy appears to be more of a safety net, than a net gain in dps. By not pooling energy, wouldn't a mutilate rogue gain more energy and combo points via Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes? I haven't accumulated enough parses to get a solid answer for myself. I was only getting the impression that pooling was less efficient, albeit safer.

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Old 12/15/08, 2:16 PM   #674
Leto
King Hippo
 
Leito
Troll Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Chappi View Post
Pooling energy appears to be more of a safety net, than a net gain in dps. By not pooling energy, wouldn't a mutilate rogue gain more energy and combo points via Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes? I haven't accumulated enough parses to get a solid answer for myself. I was only getting the impression that pooling was less efficient, albeit safer.
Pooling also allows you to fit more mutilates and finishers under the effect of the envenom buff, increase your poison dps. It is also slightly more than a safety net, since without that net, missing a ruthless proc and not critting would dramatically affect your cycle, just from bad luck.

Rogue at heart.

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Old 12/15/08, 2:41 PM   #675
stedfunk
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Scilla
Wasn't sure what thread this went in but I'm currently enchanting/herbalism and I'm considering dropping herbalism for jewlcrafting and I was wondering if you guys think the investment would be worth it (i would level herbalism to 450 on an alt, i'd just be missing out on fireseeds) even if/when the epic gems come out.

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