Anybody have any idea what the heck this is? Totally clueless.

Rogue Passive (DND)

I've never seen it referenced before, but a 29% threat reduction I definitely want to know about. It's coming up under the Combat Tree.

Rogues have always had a 29% passive threat reduction. Apparently that is the actual ability that grants the reduction.

Ah! Thank you Vulajin!
I had no idea it was that much. Thought it was more like 10%. That's actually kind of alarming. If I'm getting a 29% threat reduction, I'm going to have a very serious gear discussion with some of my tanks. I can snatch aggro from all but my Prot warrior in about a heartbeat, and I have to use Feint a bit more then I care for lately early in fights. That's opening with a Garrote and using Rupture as the finisher. No burst finshers, it's gotten way to easy to get killed that way these days.
Man, do is miss Sanctuary!

If those numbers for expertise rating goals seem inflated to you, you'd be correct. The ~32.79 corresponds to 1% dodge/parry reduction, not to a single point of expertise (which would be ~8.2). The correct values should be:

32.79 * 6.50 ~= 214 (0/2 WE)
32.79 * 5.25 ~= 173 (1/2 WE)
32.79 * 4.00 ~= 132 (2/2 WE)

For Humans wielding swords (maces left out intentionally ):

32.79 * 5.75 ~= 189 (0/2 WE)
32.79 * 4.50 ~= 148 (1/2 WE)
32.79 * 3.25 ~= 107 (2/2 WE)

I've found the two specs to be pretty comparable, BUT:

1) I'm terrible at playing mutilate - constantly screwing up the cycles and have let S'n'D drop a few times just by being energy starved and overestimating my regen - With practice, that'll improve, and bring mut's DPS up.

2) Combat is SIGNIFICANTLY better on trash, in 5 mans, boss fights with target swaps and adds - I just constantly find myself too energy starved to spend CP's as muti, and then the mob dies. Combat's shorter rampup time and better regen helps a lot here.

That did seem way inflated to me, yeah. That'll teach me to try and do simple math while I'm tired. Thanks for the correction

Greetings,

as someone in here alreadly mentioned what about the spec 7/51/13 Shadowpanther is refering to.
It lacks Lethality and Vigor but has Blood Spatter and Serrated Blades.
But if i look at the EP Charts i am wondering if this Spec would really outperform every other combat spec cause Armor Penetration isn`t valued very high.
Can someone talk a little bit more about that spec which is said to be the top dps one for combat.

Another thing i would like to ask is the stuff with poisons. Someone already told me that as long as u didn`t get points in improved poisons Wound Poison is always the better choice. If u do take points in Improved Poisons it depends on your Attackpower when Instant Poison outperforms Wound Poison.

So far so good. But now what should we take on the offhand? Would it be better to go for dual Wound Poison on both weapons or is it better to still take Deadly Poison for the offhand? There might be a difference if we are talking about raids or 5mans cause i guess Deadly Poison needs it time to stack and do its DoT damage.

The last question if u don`t mind is simply Envenmom vs. Evicerate for combat specs. I get some decent numbers out of Evicerate even without speccing Improved Eviscerate where as Envenom can`t compete with it but maybe it scales better in a raid environment i am just curious. Of course if your advice is go dual Wound Poison then it alwys has to be Eviscerate. What do you suggest. Is it even worth to put 3 Points in improved Evi?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Wound/Deadly with Wound on the faster weapon.

As to the spec, different models and different spreadsheets have given different numbers w/r/t 7/51/13 vs. 15/51/5.

Personally, I've opted for the former, because if the DPS is close enough to cause dispute, it won't be noticeable in the flurry of gear changes happening at the moment, and being able to spec Camo and Dirty Tricks in a raid build is quite nice.

Sorry to correct, but this should state 'on the weapon hitting the target the most'. Based on multiple factors, this can also be your 2.6 main hand.

How desirable would a slower mainhand (2.7+) be for combat rogues, in comparison to other equipment attributes? Also taking into accound scenarios like Imiut mentioned where you might be using Wound Poison on your mainhand as well.

Has Mungo been downranked when you reach Level80?

I am sure this subject has probably been brought up on previous threads but I can't seem to find any solid answers as of yet. Most of the topics are based on Mut builds and don't really apply to Combat.

When using a 15/51/5 Combat Sword spec is it more efficient to use Evis over Env for a finisher or better to stack DP then Env.

Currently I use Wound/DP on my weapons but I have trouble deciding between Evis and Env.

There's a significant discussion on it in the Rogue PvE thread. Start at page 165-166.

Generally speaking, as a CS, I've found the 4s/5r cycle to be the most effective until going for the kill. I'm looking to ride the 5 stack of DP and Rupture till I'm looking for the killing blow. Eviscerate for filler.

For you, I'd recommend doing some modeling on the effects of your poison enhancers. I've found it hard to tell as we're also getting damage bonus' striking a poisoned target.

I'm speaking only to Combat here. Other specs have considerations that may change that. There's still discussion as to whether heavy Assassination or Subtlety will give Combat the best punch at 80.

There's a new thread created to discuss just this. It should prove very interesting.

Yea I keep seeing discussions trying to prove if Assassination or Combat is the best raiding build. I never see any solid proof to which is the best yet though.

Fist weapons also use your unarmed weapon skill, so this does not answer the OP's question.

What is the *general* hit threshold at early tier 7 level?
For example at 70 tier 6 i would have said 280-320 you would generally want to have. It seems gemming attack power is the way to go, however i would have thought getting the poison hit cap is favoured first?

There is no *general* hit threshold. There are specific points at which hit rating becomes less effective than before but these are merely points at which the vaule of hit rating changes. In general you want to maximize DPS which could mean 0 hit and it could mean hit capped depending on what gear is available and what each stat is worth for your build and raid setup.

The best answer would be to look it up in the spredsheet to compare different pieces of gear. Barring that the second best answer is to evaluate gear choices based on the rough stat weights @ 80 posted earlier in the thread.

I'm going to repeat this again for emphasis because it is rehased so many times. There is no 'minimum' or 'threshold' amount of hit that is required to raid for any build and there never has been. All DPS stats add DPS, stack whatever combination you can to get the most DPS.

There are many things on Shadowpanther that I have found to be false so I wouldn't necessarily go by that site at the moment until it is updated properly. From what I understand the 2 top DPS builds are currently 15/51/5 and 51/13/7, with no real proof as to which is better atm.

For one, its too early to know "top" DPS specs. There are recommended specs for Combat/Mutilate that would provide Optimal DPS on bosses.

As for Trinket, use the Spreadsheet. Apart from that, I am not a fan for "Chance on crit" items as they require you to first crit (which is a chance itself).

Gemming Agi seems better to me, but it could differ from combat builds to Mut builds. As per Hit, my goal is to reach the Poison Hit Cap and reach the Expertise Cap.

What I'm getting as well. So far the main thing I'm seeing is some of the other specs becoming very viable in PvE. Combat Swords is still going to be the king by a hair until we get more information from modeling 80.

They're both going to do solid damage. Just make sure to leave the "e-peen" out of it, 1st or 3rd in DPS, the only thing that matters is taking the boss down. Choose the one that seems to work best for you, and take it for a spin.

I'll likely be going the Sub route for the added Survivability myself.

Most modeling which was done showed that 51/13/7 will out-DPS 15/51/5 by a slight margin on most stationary fights (we're talking a 1-2% DPS difference). There are certainly some fights where Combat has the advantage, however.

HaT is pretty much out of the question until people get geared up again. Everyone's crit chance has gone down substantially, and as such you won't generate enough CPs to compete with the other two builds.

In reference to mutilate dagger speeds, I know that faster is better for both oh and mh given equivalent dps, and assuming equivalent dps on daggers you want the faster in your main hand. However I am wondering if there is some (weapon) dps equivalent for a .1 change in speed, on both OH and MH daggers. I know as combat I used 10 weapon dps per .1 speed for OH and was wondering if there was any equivalent for mutilate. Thanks