Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 301

Tumpen · 01/25/10, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by NoIdea

Thank you.
Yeah I dont use Rupture anymore, only use multilate to 4-5 combos then Evenom.
I heard its the right way to do it. It seems to be so far. Less things to monitor, not afraid of overlaping Rupture tick and greater damage.

I have just read the Rogue's FAQ. - It said something about Faster weapon on MH.

Can anyone tell me If my way of weapon equipment and poison are correct?
The higher Dps weapon always goes on MH which is usually slower Speed (1.8) than the lower Dps dagger but faster speed on OH right (1.4)?

I usually apply Deadly poison on MH and Instant on OH, so that Instant Would hit more After Evenom.
Or because of the new patch, deadly poison stacked 5 times apply other hand poison now, Deadly should be on OH?

As I believe it's stated pretty clearly in the FAQ section - Deadly poison is always placed on fast dagger and IP on slow dagger - You want to have highest dps dagger in MH as you stated but if they are both of equal dps you want to have the fast dagger in MH but STILL with Deadly Poison on it. The dps difference is extremely small so I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

Hope I understod your question correctly.

Beepo · 01/27/10, 10:16 AM

Hope I'm in line asking this here.

I've been Mut for a good month now. My gear is a mix of ToC/ICC/Frost Emblem. At first I could pull 8-9k on sustained fights, but over the last 2 weeks, my DPS have crawled down to about 6-7k, hitting over 8k rarely. Ive been number crunching to the best of my ability(try doing it with a learning disability, it sucks), gotten a few upgrades, but my DPS is embarrassingly low most of the time now, and I cant figure it out. I'm trying to rule out being under-geared because my other to Rogues share similar stats, and I was DPSing on an equitable level until recently.

As for boss fights, I open up with Ambush(Garrote if I cant score a bleed effect within 3 seconds from somebody else), SnD > HFB > go insane with Mut and 4/5pt Envenom. At the start of a fight I have to make a steady crawl to acceptable DPS regardless with a huge gap between me and others. As far as I know, I'm on the same page with other rogues I raid with. I use Instant MH and Deadly OH. I'm stumped.

What am I missing?

Gilin · 01/27/10, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Beepo

What am I missing?

The nerf to Hunger For Blood?

Zereo · 01/27/10, 12:42 PM

The nerf to Hunger for Blood was only about a 7% overall dps loss. Not a 2k nerf by any means if you were pulling 7-9k. Go play with a spreadsheet.

Dietro · 01/27/10, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Beepo

Hope I'm in line asking this here.

I've been Mut for a good month now. My gear is a mix of ToC/ICC/Frost Emblem. At first I could pull 8-9k on sustained fights, but over the last 2 weeks, my DPS have crawled down to about 6-7k, hitting over 8k rarely. Ive been number crunching to the best of my ability(try doing it with a learning disability, it sucks), gotten a few upgrades, but my DPS is embarrassingly low most of the time now, and I cant figure it out. I'm trying to rule out being under-geared because my other to Rogues share similar stats, and I was DPSing on an equitable level until recently.

As for boss fights, I open up with Ambush(Garrote if I cant score a bleed effect within 3 seconds from somebody else), SnD > HFB > go insane with Mut and 4/5pt Envenom. At the start of a fight I have to make a steady crawl to acceptable DPS regardless with a huge gap between me and others. As far as I know, I'm on the same page with other rogues I raid with. I use Instant MH and Deadly OH. I'm stumped.

What am I missing?

HFB nerf
Poison benifit from Ap nerf
and zerking enchant nerf? I think

Flizibibi · 01/27/10, 4:02 PM

I'm interested to know what theorycrafting has been done on dealing with energy capping issues in Mutilate spec? Now that I have 2/5 T10 and Heartpiece I find that it's difficult (especially during Heroism or after Vanish) to keep energy from capping without significantly clipping Envenom buff. I can imagine several responses.... 1) Clip Envenom to whatever extent is needed to keep energy from capping; 2) Drop an additional finisher into the rotation (Evis or Rupture) to dump energy; 3) Allow energy to cap until Envenom buff drops.

2) is obviously a better choice than 3), but I can't intuition the choice between 1) or 2). I will do a quantitative analysis if one hasn't been done, but wanted to not recreate the wheel if it's already around somewhere.

Clandestine · 01/28/10, 12:46 AM

Clip envenom to prevent energy capping.

Flizibibi · 01/28/10, 7:57 AM

Thanks for advice! How big is the difference? And how do you know?

paulsen · 01/28/10, 9:04 AM

I'm combat evis-only right now, and quite curious about cooldowns. The pocket guide says that you should blow every CD you have when they are ready (except AR before KR obviously), but I thought waiting for the 30-sec heroism was the way to go?
Blowing BF+KS on a target not yet stacked up with sunder armor seems a bit silly to me (allthough I get the point about blowing CD's early so that you can re-use them more often).

Haste pot is still reserved for heroism?

Onodrim · 01/29/10, 5:00 AM

Using your combat spec abilities as soon as they're off cooldown is a rule of thumb and how they're put to best use oftentimes varies from encounter to encounter. As an example, saving damage increasing cooldowns for taking down the portals on Jaraxxus would most likely be a good idea.

In a general perspective, stacking cooldowns with buffs is most of the time considered prudent in terms of achieving the highest dps. As such, haste pots are frequently used with heroism, however, that also has to do with both Heroism and Haste Pots only being usable once during a boss fight in practice; so why wouldn't you stack them (unless the specific mechanics of an encounter dictates that increased haste is an advantage in two separate phases).

However, for that reason Heroism is, on some boss fights, saved for a particular point of time during the fight. When Anub'Arak reaches 30%; for some guilds, when Saurfang and Rotface reaches 30%; for some guilds, when Acidmaw pops up for the first time and so on. In such cases, you obviously aim for your combat abilities to be off cooldown for those particular phases, but if you were to save them *until* you reach those phases, it'd most likely mean an unnecessary dps loss.

Towelette · 01/29/10, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by paulsen

I'm combat evis-only right now, and quite curious about cooldowns. The pocket guide says that you should blow every CD you have when they are ready (except AR before KR obviously), but I thought waiting for the 30-sec heroism was the way to go?
Blowing BF+KS on a target not yet stacked up with sunder armor seems a bit silly to me (allthough I get the point about blowing CD's early so that you can re-use them more often).

Haste pot is still reserved for heroism?

As was stated, it is best to have your cooldowns up for Heroism, but provided this doesn't mean you lose one use of them over the course of a fight. 30s seems late for the Heroism call on fights where you're not saving it for a particular mechanic. If you're waiting 30s into a fight to use your cooldowns for the first time, there's a decent chance you may be clipping one last use at the end of a fight, and actually losing DPS by doing so.

As for Haste potion, yes still save for Heroism. Some people pre-pot (using a potion before combat begins, which lets you use another one later in the fight since you don't get the "debuff" for using a potion until your second). You may miss being able to use it during Heroism\Bloodlust depending on when the call is, though.

gu6o · 02/01/10, 5:44 AM

How do similar effects stack (add or multiply)?
For example:
1) Crit damage from Lethality and Prey on the Weak (and also from the 3% crit damage meta);
2) Damage increases from Opportunity, Find Weakness, etc.;
3) Haste (attack speed) from Lightning Reflexes, SnD, BF, gear.

And one more thing - is it true that Rogue's GCD is 1 sec? And can it be lowered by melee haste?

P.S. Sorry if my questions are noobish, but I am new to the class and, although I did a lot of searching and reading, I didn't manage to find the answers of those questions.

• Aldriana · 02/01/10, 6:05 AM

In general for this sort of question, your best bet is the spreadsheets; finding the original determination in the forums can be quite hard (and in some cases impossible, as there are some mechanics I've tested and put straight into the spreadsheet without ever posting about them). So if you open up one of the spreadsheets and look in the right place, you can find the answers to these. I'm not personally willing to vouch for Mavanas's sheet in this respect, but I'm (obviously) pretty confident that they're all applied correctly in my sheet. Which is not to say Mavanas is wrong; I just haven't checked, so am not going to guarantee it.

So, in the future, we'd prefer you look them up in that fashion. However, as some of these are pretty obscure, I'll give you an answer this time:

1) Neither. Quoting a post from Vulajin in the benefactor's bar:

Originally Posted by Vulajin

As far as we know, "increases critical strike damage" and "increases critical strike damage bonus" effects are applied like this:
((Base Crit Multiplier * Crit Damage 1 * Crit Damage 2 * ...) - 1) * Crit Damage Bonus * Crit Damage Bonus 2 * ... + 1

Where Base Crit Multiplier is 1.5 or 2 for spells or physical, respectively.

2) There's some of each. In terms of the specific question you asked, Opportunity and Find Weakness are additive; however, "most" other bonuses apply multiplicatively.

3) All haste rating applies additively with each other. This then applies multiplicatively with all other sources of haste.

4) GCD is 1 second. This is the absolute minimum GCD attainable by any means, so haste does not improve it (not that it would anyway, as haste only improves the spell GCD and most of our abilities are not spells).

Mavanas · 02/01/10, 11:00 AM

Because I created the simsheet after Aldriana and Vulajin have already created theirs, in the initial version I relied on Vulajin's spreadsheet for things like haste effects and damage buffs. Some mechanics changed since then or our understanding of them changed due to further testing, and every one of those changes was incorporated in the simsheet.

In terms of damage buffs, as a rule of thumb if the tooltip says "increases damage of an ability" it will be additive with other similar talents. If it says "all damage" is increased, it will be multiplicative. So for instance for sinister strike, Aggression, Blade Twisting, Surprise Attacks and Find Weakness are additive. For backstab, opportunity is also additive with the other four talents. For eviscerate, Improved Eviscerate, Find Weakness, and Aggression are additive. For envenom, Vile Poisons and Find Weakness are additive. For rupture, Blood Spatter, Serrated Blades, Find Weakness and 2pT7 bonus are all additive. The rest of the buffs are multiplicative: Hunger for Blood, Murder, and any raid buffs, such as Savage Combat, Sanctified Retribution and Ebon Plaguebringer.

Stybba · 02/01/10, 6:39 PM

I hope this hasn´t been asked before, but I might´ve missed a post or two in the past 180+ pages.....

Is there a point as a Mutilate Rogue where Mongoose is better or on par with Berserking? On MH/OH/Both? I´ve tried several gear setups and I think that I´ll soon have access to the hardmode gear (hopefully not much after they´ve been released :P).

Ah and, if yes, I would love an explanation, I suppose Mongoose gets better the more Haste you got, but it seems that a difference of ~7AEP is the closest I can get to it.

thanks