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Old 03/21/10, 9:32 AM   #4696
Law
Von Kaiser
 
Law's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Skywall
So I'm getting some conflicting results between the spreadsheets and the guides, specifically about the issue regarding which hand to put which weapon (fast/slow or slow/fast).

On the FAQ, it says to put the highest DPS weapon in the MH, but in two different spreadsheets I am being shown that the opposite is indeed the case:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2536315/Muti....3-mcninja.xls
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2536315/Rogu...3f-mcninja.xls

What am I doing wrong, or am I in a unique situation where lowdps/highdps is actually better?

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Old 03/21/10, 10:16 AM   #4697
tuni31
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Vylent View Post
Just getting back into the game. .
What's a straightforward Weapon swap - Shiv macro? ie: applying anesthetic poison
What's a decent "start attack" macro to bind to Mutilate or Sinister Strike? or is this needed?
/equipslot 17 <item>

Will equip the item in the OH. It'll trigger a GCD, so you need to Shiv manually.

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Old 03/21/10, 5:00 PM   #4698
Furtim
Piston Honda
 
Troll Rogue
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by Law View Post
So I'm getting some conflicting results between the spreadsheets and the guides, specifically about the issue regarding which hand to put which weapon (fast/slow or slow/fast).

On the FAQ, it says to put the highest DPS weapon in the MH, but in two different spreadsheets I am being shown that the opposite is indeed the case:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2536315/Muti....3-mcninja.xls
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2536315/Rogu...3f-mcninja.xls

What am I doing wrong, or am I in a unique situation where lowdps/highdps is actually better?
When you put the [Unsharpened Ice Razor] into the mutilate sheet, you left it checked for both 1.4 and 1.8 speed weapons, just fixing it so that it is only listed as a 1.4 weapon increases the dps by about 240 dps, then putting them in the [Twin Spike] MH/[Unsharpened Ice Razor] OH, you gain another 9dps, for a total gain of about 250dps.

For the Rogue Simulation Spreadsheet, always double check which weapon the Poisons are going on in the DPS Strat sheet, just setting it correctly increased your reported DPS by about 0.5%.

Always double check your data entry if something isn't matching up to what has become standard practice.

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Old 03/22/10, 10:25 AM   #4699
Daleb2020
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Dps optimization: talents points best spent

Hey guys,
I am not a very experienced WoW rogue, however after reviewing the popular rogue combat build (20/51/0) I was somewhat inclined to transferring anywhere from 1-3 talent points from improved eviscerate/improved poison/ruthlessness over to blood spatter, or possibly vile poison, being that rupture is one of the most important finishers available to rogues, besides SnD of course. Any thoughts, refutes, or comments on this perspective will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

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Old 03/22/10, 10:35 AM   #4700
Gryzemuis
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing (EU)
Not sure where to ask this.

I am currently soloing a few level60 bosses. Great fun. I just did the Eranikus event in Moonglade solo.

My question is about hitrating and expertise. When fighting mobs 20 levels below you, your hitrating and expertise are a lot higher than your miss and the mob's dodge and parry ratings. So I would expect that to optimize dps, it would be smarter to use stats like agility and haste. But level-60 bosses are not true level-60 mobs. They are "skull-level" bosses. And at level-80, skull-level means their hit/miss/dodge/parry ratings are "as if 3 levels higher than you".

So I'm wondering, do level-60 skull-level bosses have upgraded combat ratings ? If so, it would make sense to use my regular gear with high expertise and hit. But if I won't miss and won't get dodged or parried anyway, I might switch gear.

Has anyone ever tested lower-level mobs ?

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Old 03/22/10, 11:32 AM   #4701
Law
Von Kaiser
 
Law's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Daleb2020 View Post
Hey guys,
I am not a very experienced WoW rogue, however after reviewing the popular rogue combat build (20/51/0) I was somewhat inclined to transferring anywhere from 1-3 talent points from improved eviscerate/improved poison/ruthlessness over to blood spatter, or possibly vile poison, being that rupture is one of the most important finishers available to rogues, besides SnD of course. Any thoughts, refutes, or comments on this perspective will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
What makes you think rupture is one of the most important finishers available to rogues? If you'll look in the 3.3 Rogue FAQ, you'll find this:

Q: What's the recommended cycle for combat?
A: SnD if it's about to drop, 5pt Eviscerates otherwise.
Which does not include a rupture. I am not entirely up to date on what impact rupture ticks critting is going to have on combat cycles, but I do not think it will be enough to outweigh the power of an eviscerate as the finisher. I could be wrong though.

Edit: Reading a little bit on the rupture topic in the Incoming Rogue Changes discussion thread, it looks like rupture in 3.3.3 is providing a small DPS increase to combat, and giving even less of an increase for mutilate, though still positive.

To quote Docrev:
Originally Posted by Docrev View Post
Looks like the rupture change may have bought it a bit of scaling, especially at lower gear levels, but the fact that it only scales off of AP and crit, as opposed to envenom which scales off of AP, crit, and haste, seems to basically doom most uses of it for mutilate, at least from this test.

Last edited by Law : 03/22/10 at 12:11 PM.

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Old 03/22/10, 2:32 PM   #4702
evman182
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Baelgun
There doesn't seem to be a general consensus that I can see on whether or not combat rogues should be putting rupture into their rotation following patch 3.3.3. I was hoping Mavanas or Aldriana or anyone else with a definitive answer could pop in and give a solid opinion on if it will be worth it.

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Old 03/22/10, 2:57 PM   #4703
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I haven't had the time (and, I admit, at some level the inclination) to update my spreadsheet for 3.3.3, so I can't comment definitively on which will be better. But if you want my best guess... I suspect rupture will yield higher sustained DPS on Festergut/Saurfang type fights, but will respond less advantageously to more interrupted fights (like, Dreamwalker). So is it worth speccing into and using? My guess is that, depending on exactly which fights you're optimizing for, it probably is... but not necessarily by a lot. Optimally, of course, one could use dual spec to keep both a rupture-based spec and a evis-based spec and switch back and forth on a fight-to-fight basis, but that will obviously only work if you don't want to use your 2nd spec for PvP or Mutilate or whatever.

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Old 03/22/10, 3:08 PM   #4704
Law
Von Kaiser
 
Law's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by evman182 View Post
There doesn't seem to be a general consensus that I can see on whether or not combat rogues should be putting rupture into their rotation following patch 3.3.3. I was hoping Mavanas or Aldriana or anyone else with a definitive answer could pop in and give a solid opinion on if it will be worth it.
I can at least tell you, from the discussion I've read, that glyphing for rupture is not a superior strategy, because it doesn't make up for the lost raid DPS from tott glyph. As for running combat with rupture, the Java app has a way of modeling rupture for combat cycles, and in the 2 minutes I just spent playing around with it, I was seeing a net increase of about 100 DPS (12504 vs. 12610), using Aldriana's current character as a guide (I'm logged out in mut gear), and that's with the rupture glyph.

I'll wait to pass judgement on rupture until the various spreadsheets/apps all converge on an answer, but as it stands, I wouldn't start worrying about a new rotation just yet.

On a different note, is anyone else not all that excited about the possibility of incorporating rupture into a combat "rotation"? I find myself almost *wanting* it to not be worthwhile, but maybe that's just me.

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Old 03/22/10, 5:56 PM   #4705
Pillion
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Alleria
Understanding that the changes to Rupture may only be benficial in low movement fights if one were to want to make a secondary rupture build it seemed to best to move the two points in Ruthlessness in to Blood Splatter was only a 46.3 DPS lose on a Eviscerate only cycle.

I'm not a theorycrafter at all, and maybe it best left up to those who are, but if Combat was to go to a low Rupture cycle it would seem that the DPS gain should slightly increase after making up the DPS loss of Ruthlessness (based on the current spreadsheet using an Eviscerate only cycle)

Finally is there a way to change the current spreadsheet's attack rotation from Eviscerate only to Low Rupture?

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Old 03/22/10, 6:23 PM   #4706
dinesh
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Dalaran
The current (Aldriana's Combat) spreadsheet will automatically switch from Evis to Low Rupture (or High Rupture) once either of those rotations do more damage than an Evis only rotation does, given all the other inputs.

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Old 03/23/10, 11:52 AM   #4707
baleeye
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Death Knight
 
Llane
LockPicking

Might've already seen this answer on the forums, but once one gets to IceCrown etc... the chests at Onslaught Harbor can be picked to up LockPicking to 450.

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Old 03/24/10, 5:15 PM   #4708
Alfador
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Emerald Dream
From what I've seen, the rupture rotation seems to slightly increase the value of the 4pc T10 bonus since you're executing finishers a little more often with it. That said, I'm not sure it's enough to make anyone actually change the decision of whether or not to go for it though.

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Old 03/24/10, 8:01 PM   #4709
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Law View Post
I can at least tell you, from the discussion I've read, that glyphing for rupture is not a superior strategy, because it doesn't make up for the lost raid DPS from tott glyph.
You shouldn't replace the TotT glyph; instead, replace SS with Rupture. You're not gaining as much combo points this way, but playing around with Aldrianas sheet, this was the best combination I could find while keeping TotT (which without doubt is the single best raid DPS glyph for rogues and shouldn't be replaced).
The best combination means a plus of 322 DPS with a High Rupture rotation (which might be over- or underestimated as Aldriana has stated).
Still, 300 DPS is similar to what an upgrade from Anub heroic main hand to Saurfang heroic main hand would net.

Stopped Playing

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Old 03/25/10, 11:02 AM   #4710
Sculduggery
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Bleeding Hollow
In reference to speccing out of Imp Evis and using the Rupture Glyph over SS for a High Rupture rotation, does anybody have updated ArP values for such a set up? Knowing that we're going to be doing weaker/less Eviscerates and more Ruptures, would gemming AGI overtake geming ArP in BiS gear?

I don't think any spreadsheets have been updated for 3.3.3 yet.

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