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Old 05/02/10, 2:14 PM   #4831
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
[Accurate Ametrine] is probably your best bet in yellow slots, giving you both hit and exp to raise your crit cap. Probably best til exp cap is reached.

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Old 05/02/10, 4:08 PM   #4832
StoicRoivaS
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Rogue
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by thottstation View Post
Is there a better way to avoid going over my current Crit Cap other than using Expertise gems?


As a Combat Rogue, I've always defaulted to as many ArPen gems as I can to get me to 1400, and using Expertise gems for any remaining free sockets. Whenever I got new gear that pushed me over the 1400 mark, or when the spreadsheet gives it's ominous Red warning that I'm over my Crit Cap, I've just added as many Expertise gems as it takes (matching sockets when I can) to get me out of the Red Zone.

However, I've got my eye on the heroic Frostbrood Ring, and have checked to see exactly how much of a dps gain it would be. Once again (Red Alert!), I'm sent over my crit cap, so as usual I replace the odd ArPen gem with an Expertise Gem. But doing so lowers any dps gain I get from the new ring itself. The more Expertise gems I add, the lower it goes. Finally, by the time I'm no longer over the cap, the dps improvement gained by the new ring is little more than single digits.

Is there any other way to get myself out of the red that doesn't involve Expertise Gems? I've played with other Yellow gem choices, but no luck... and all the webpages that discuss Crit Cap solutions recommend Expertise Gems, or to "watch your gear".
One thing I might suggest is to note the weight of arp for you at such high levels. If this is still under expertise or poison-hit, you're still better off gemming that hit or expertise. I play mut so I'm not sure what sort of weights hardcapped arp gets towards the end, but I'm guessing being below both the poison and expertise cap isn't the best dps setup you can produce.

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Old 05/02/10, 10:21 PM   #4833
smartus
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Terokkar (EU)
AP vs. Haste

I know that AP > Haste in lab conditions and encounters with no interruptions for mutilate. But what about other encoutners? Should I still favor AP over Haste? I now use Herkuml War Token, which imho favours haste a bit as well.

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Old 05/02/10, 11:59 PM   #4834
Luckyspoon
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Darkspear
Originally Posted by smartus View Post
AP vs. Haste

I know that AP > Haste in lab conditions and encounters with no interruptions for mutilate. But what about other encoutners? Should I still favor AP over Haste? I now use Herkuml War Token, which imho favours haste a bit as well.
Everyone is slightly different. Through my spreadsheets, I know that ATM, MY personal EP weight favor Haste. I would check your spreadsheet to verify.

Using Aldriana's spreadsheet, I believe that it automatically calculates your EP weights as you change your gear.

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Old 05/03/10, 12:19 AM   #4835
smartus
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Terokkar (EU)
Originally Posted by Luckyspoon View Post
Everyone is slightly different. Through my spreadsheets, I know that ATM, MY personal EP weight favor Haste. I would check your spreadsheet to verify.

Using Aldriana's spreadsheet, I believe that it automatically calculates your EP weights as you change your gear.
I've checked the spreadsheet, and it now favours stark ametrine in yellow slots when there is a bonus. But the question is still, would it be beneficial to use more haste in case of moving/interrupting/adds bosses over AP? (like in a blue slot, no bonus).

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Old 05/03/10, 1:56 AM   #4836
Jiposs
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Sylvanas (EU)
I just tried out a Rupture rotation on a bossdummy to find out if I could see any difference between that and an evisc-only cycle. My DPS with Rupture turned out to be slightly higher than my DPS with Evisc. The spec I used was this. Can anyone tell me if Rupture is actually viable for raiding, or is Evisc still the way to go?

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Old 05/03/10, 3:07 AM   #4837
Nicedps
Banned
 
Troll Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Fight lasting 4 minutes. What will be more favourable: use vanish 2 times for fight (but it will not get under various procs) or 1 time but under trinket, berserk etc. Trinket - skull 264.

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Old 05/03/10, 4:13 AM   #4838
Belegûr
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Kael'thas (EU)
The basic rule for using vanish with buffs/procs is: time them together if you're not losing a vanish. The extra DPS of a second vanish will vastly outdo what little extra DPS you squeezed out of timing vanish with all the right procs. Besides, if you use vanish right at the beginning of the fight, i.e. as soon as Overkill's 20 initial seconds are over, the odds are quite high that you'll have quite a few interesting procs up, as at the beginning of a fight nothing is on inner CD yet.

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Old 05/04/10, 9:12 AM   #4839
StoicRoivaS
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Rogue
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by smartus View Post
I've checked the spreadsheet, and it now favours stark ametrine in yellow slots when there is a bonus. But the question is still, would it be beneficial to use more haste in case of moving/interrupting/adds bosses over AP? (like in a blue slot, no bonus).
I'm not fully sure if you're trying to ask which is better, or which is better for movement heavy fights. Your sheet will tell you which is better in the perfect tank and spank vacuum. As your haste goes up, the relative weight of haste will go down, and similarly with AP. The other stats will affect them in less obvious ways, but it basically depends on how much "passive" haste you end up with on your gear. If you get a ton of nice gear with haste on most slots, you'll probably find that AP is worth more, and vice versa if you don't have much "passive" haste. So just check the sheet to see. If haste is over 2.0 then you're better gemming that in most cases, and if it's under, you're better gemming AP where possible. If you're in a similar gearing situation as me, you may find that haste ping-pongs around 2.0 with every slight gear upgrade and different gem type you use. In this situation you just want to gem whichever is higher until haste tips to the other side of 2.0, and then gem the other stat. Obviously you won't regem 15 gems every time you get a new piece, but if you find haste is 2.2 with a new piece of gear, then you should gem it with as much haste as you can fit in, similarly, if haste drops to 1.8 with your new piece, you'd gem AP.

As to the other question you (might) have asked, I'm not sure which stat is best compared to the other on movement heavy fights, but I'd put my money on AP, if you're just asking about which is better in theory. Movement heavy fights will weight your overall damage towards yellow damage because you lose a ton of white swings while moving but your energy still pools. So unless you have an excessive amount of time off target (which doesn't really happen) you'll still get to use basically "all" of your energy on yellow attacks, while missing a good chunk of white damage. So once the damage leans towards yellow over white, I would guess that AP pulls ahead in theory. AP contributes directly to all yellow damage where as haste only sort of indirectly contributes (via your energy regen talent).

Still not sure exactly which question you're meaning to ask, but hopefully that answers them both.

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Old 05/05/10, 7:07 AM   #4840
Sithris
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Illidan
As a combat rogue,

Would I gain more dps popping a haste potion when hero/lust is up, or use it and blow ALL of my cooldowns, while my DBW is procced on an ap or agi proc for example. I am confused trying to figure out when it is best to use my 2nd potion for a fight.

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Old 05/05/10, 8:58 AM   #4841
atroxes
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Originally Posted by Sithris View Post
As a combat rogue,

Would I gain more dps popping a haste potion when hero/lust is up, or use it and blow ALL of my cooldowns, while my DBW is procced on an ap or agi proc for example. I am confused trying to figure out when it is best to use my 2nd potion for a fight.
I'd suggest to judge the individual situation. Depending on the fight at what's going on around you, a Haste pot might be better spent when a burst is needed, than when you get the most overall DPS out of it.

For a 'Patchwerk fight', using a Potion of Speed in conjunction with as many Proc's and cooldowns as possible is the most beneficial for you. What matters is how many buff effects you can stack ontop of one another, especially Berserking, Blade Flurry (multiple targets), DBW and Heroism.

What matters isn't really Heroism/Bloodlust or Blade Flurry alone (assuming single target ofcourse), since all haste effects are additive. What really matters is Berserking, DBW or other proc's that give you stats other than haste. Haste doesn't make your existing Haste "better" than it already is. More AP however, makes your Haste better and vice versa.

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Old 05/05/10, 10:55 AM   #4842
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
What matters isn't really Heroism/Bloodlust or Blade Flurry alone (assuming single target ofcourse), since all haste effects are additive. What really matters is Berserking, DBW or other proc's that give you stats other than haste. Haste doesn't make your existing Haste "better" than it already is. More AP however, makes your Haste better and vice versa.
Which is wrong, as all haste effects are multiplicative except haste rating, which is additive.
Thus Heroism, Blade Flurry and haste rating are multiplicative, whereas the haste potion only adds additively to your haste rating.

However, this is no answer to the original question. I'm myself unsure what the very best practice is, so I react to the circumstances. If my procs are running right now, and will end before Heroism will become active and have no chance to overlap during its uptime, I use the haste pot then. However if there's a good chance that a (strong) proc is active during Heroism, I wait for it.

Not necessarily the best, but it may be a decent guideline.

Stopped Playing

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Old 05/05/10, 8:53 PM   #4843
Sithris
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Illidan
Which is wrong, as all haste effects are multiplicative except haste rating, which is additive.
Thus Heroism, Blade Flurry and haste rating are multiplicative, whereas the haste potion only adds additively to your haste rating.
So you could technically say there are 2 different kinds of haste and that they both don't effect one another. i.e. hero/lust, Blade flurry, SnD are different kinds of haste additives than haste rating , i.e. Potion of speed, or haste proc from a DBW

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Old 05/05/10, 8:57 PM   #4844
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Sithris View Post
So you could technically say there are 2 different kinds of haste and that they both don't effect one another. i.e. hero/lust, Blade flurry, SnD are different kinds of haste additives than haste rating , i.e. Potion of speed, or haste proc from a DBW
No. Bloodlust, Blade Flurry, and Slice and Dice all multiply against one another, and also against the total additive effect of your haste rating.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 05/05/10, 9:03 PM   #4845
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
As does, for instance, Mongoose. All haste effects that simply give a percentage multiply with each other; all haste rating adds together and then multiplies in as well.

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