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Old 05/19/10, 11:12 AM   #4906
Averiel
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
<SPG>
Ysera
Originally Posted by Jatlok_Dath'Remar View Post
Is there a point where we (rogues) gain no benefit from Haste. Is there a point where haste might as well be intellect?
It may seem stupid but I thought surely there is a figure, rating that can be attributed as being the point at which haste no longer is beneficial?
A point beyond our reach, iirc. I believe this cap was stated as the point where we attack so fast and gain so much energy that we cannot use it effectively.

Last edited by Averiel : 05/19/10 at 11:39 AM.

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Old 05/19/10, 11:53 AM   #4907
Bebi
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing (EU)
First, Frag Belt vs. Eternal Belt Buckle, will the extra gem slot bring more or less DPS than the bomb? Might be a silly question, but I couldn't find a answer suited to it.

Second, when in heroics as a Mutilate Rogue, I really would like to get some information about how you other rogues start off Hunger For Blood - do you even use it on thrash?

What if there is a thrash mob with a larger health pool than a normal mob, casting HFB is a must, but is it best to open with Garrote or a 1 CP Rupture?

Any comments on the HFB part in heroics is appriciated.

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Old 05/19/10, 12:02 PM   #4908
Averiel
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
<SPG>
Ysera
Originally Posted by Bebi View Post
First, Frag Belt vs. Eternal Belt Buckle, will the extra gem slot bring more or less DPS than the bomb? Might be a silly question, but I couldn't find a answer suited to it.

Second, when in heroics as a Mutilate Rogue, I really would like to get some information about how you other rogues start off Hunger For Blood - do you even use it on thrash?

What if there is a thrash mob with a larger health pool than a normal mob, casting HFB is a must, but is it best to open with Garrote or a 1 CP Rupture?

Any comments on the HFB part in heroics is appriciated.
Can't you use both?

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Old 05/19/10, 12:15 PM   #4909
Bebi
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing (EU)
Frag Belt and Eternal Belt Bucket? I'm guessing I can't use both as it's the same with other enchants, thats why I wonder wich one is better than the other, or if it's even such a difference.

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Old 05/19/10, 1:47 PM   #4910
Zenflux
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Duskwood
Originally Posted by Bebi View Post
Frag Belt and Eternal Belt Bucket? I'm guessing I can't use both as it's the same with other enchants, thats why I wonder wich one is better than the other, or if it's even such a difference.
Taken directly from wowwiki:

Source: Frag Belt - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

This does stack with the [Eternal Belt Buckle], but does not stack with other engineering tinkers, specifically the Personal Electromagnetic Pulse Generator.
This item shares a cooldown with other explosives, such as Saronite Bombs.
Note also that while the Cobalt Frag Bomb and Saronite Bomb both are described as having a 5' radius, the targetting indicator for the frag belt is much smaller than for the Saronite Bomb.

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Old 05/19/10, 2:48 PM   #4911
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Open with garrote.

To hfb with a rupture you must expend significantly more energy (and time) to get your full rotation running, and garrote already does reasonable dpe. The reason rogues open with mut over garrote normally is simply because it has a higher chance to proc poisons, not because garrote is a garbage opener.

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Old 05/19/10, 3:02 PM   #4912
hokken
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Duskwood
Originally Posted by Zenflux View Post
Yes, in the spreadsheet I no longer use the Agi/Hit or Agi/Haste gems. I have switched over to almost all Hit gems in yellow sockets. But with the HWT I am still crip capped even after changing to all Hit gems.
What up Zen. I’m at work and don’t have access to openoffice or excel on this computer, so I played around with your setup on idps and came up with a few potential solutions for you that get you back under or very close to back under crit cap. I can’t remember if you have Heroic Band of the Bone Colossus or not, but given your current predicament, it would certainly help if you did. Also, even if it’s just a temporary solution, swapping out Cat’s Swiftness for Icewalker would help, and being a LW, you could always pop Drums of Speed if you needed a quick burst and Sprint is on CD. Anyway, from highest dps gain to lowest, these are the setups you might want to try, the first two are by far the highest gain, with the last three being substantially less:

8 Rigid King’s Amber, Icewalker, Band of the Bone Colossus-H
9 Rigid King’s Amber, Icewalker (still slightly over)
8 Rigid King’s Amber, Band of the Bone Colossus-H
9 Rigid King’s Amber (still slightly over)
9 Rigid King’s Amber, 1 Rigid Dragon’s Eye (minuscule dps gain, you probably don’t want to lose the ArPen)

Anyway, cya at 8. Hopefully I won’t die so much tonight.

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Old 05/19/10, 4:23 PM   #4913
Expose69
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by firewulf View Post
Keep Deadly Poison on the fast weapon, and Instant Poison on the slow weapon regardless of which hand they're in. Remember that DP procs after the 5 stack is up will apply IP instead, and you'll have the reason why.
Ok so is that what the spreadsheet is already doing for me? Or is IP hardcoded to be on the MH?

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Old 05/19/10, 6:11 PM   #4914
StoicRoivaS
Piston Honda
 
StoicRoivaS's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Bebi View Post
Frag Belt and Eternal Belt Bucket? I'm guessing I can't use both as it's the same with other enchants, thats why I wonder wich one is better than the other, or if it's even such a difference.
I can confirm that you can indeed have both. I keep both on all of my belts, but I rarely use the cobalt bombs. Firstly because they have a cast time, which makes them definitely less than ideal for pve purposes, and secondly because they just do flat out less damage than the saronite bombs, which do not have a cast time. If you're interested in using bombs for pve, you want to use a Global Thermal Sapper Charge (note this is non-targeted so you must be standing among the mobs, near the center) followed by four saronite bombs, each bomb one minute after the previous. Sapper Charge, saronite, saronite, saornite, saronite, sapper charge, saronite, etc. Note the sapper charges require you to go with Goblin engineering, but you're not really giving anything up by doing so, so it's just assumed you are; at least in my mind. Some people don't specialize, or go gnomish for whatever reason, and their bomb rotation is simply always a saronite bomb, which is slightly less dps.

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Old 05/20/10, 12:59 AM   #4915
ruzikude
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
The Underbog
Multilate daggers

i was using [Heartpierce] and [Lungbreaker] before. Tonight i got an additional lungbreaker and was wondering if useing two 1.40 speed weapons was good.

Not the heroics ones, the regular ones. Sorry the post automatically made them heroic

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Old 05/20/10, 1:53 AM   #4916
Skellingtoon
Glass Joe
 
Holyskell
Blood Elf Priest
 
Khaz'goroth
Edit: content removed.
following post has more accurate information.

Last edited by Skellingtoon : 05/21/10 at 12:37 AM.

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Old 05/20/10, 3:08 AM   #4917
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
I tried to beat around the bush becaue I hate to just contradict someone, Skellingtoon, but I couldn't find anything in your post that was accurate. So I'll just say it. :\

Two 1.4 weapons is fine; the only thing that matters is that you have at least one fast weapon, and the other weapon just needs to be the highest dps possible. If both are of equal dps, the faster one should usually go in your mainhand.

Do not bother with a training dummy, as its results are unlikely to give you the right answer especially when the delta is so small. Plug your gear into a spreadsheet and see which gives you better results. Socket bonus needn't be a consideration because normal heartpierce doesn't have a socket.

If both are within a tiny margin of one-another, I would suggest simply going dual lungbreakers. Not having the heartpiece proc up means you can devote less attention to not energy capping. The spreadsheet may show them as identical, but you'll have an easier time pulling off the spreadsheet's perfect rotation with a lungbreaker.

Last edited by Sarvius : 05/20/10 at 3:25 AM.

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Old 05/20/10, 4:01 AM   #4918
Sakuru
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
hi, I've been a silent reader for some time, and i want to thank you all for all the good work you pour inn here

this aside, I've been reading alot about having issues and trying to avoid energy cappin/pooling to much energy (as mutilate), this is where I'm raising a questionmark, because my experience (overall) is quite the oposite, i have issues pooling enough energy maintaining a 4+cp rotation as well as keeping my envenum uptime maintained, i feel i alway am sweating for those tics of energy to come in faster than they do cus my envenom is in alot of instances dropping off my target before i can toss in another envenom to refresh it...

anyone with the same experience of energy?

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Old 05/20/10, 4:07 AM   #4919
LemmiLemming
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Ambossar (EU)
Can anyone clarify something to me please so i can be sure that i understood it right. Do i do 4 CP Envenon when i got 4, or do i wait for the 5th CP ? And its right to leave rupture completely out, unless i need to refresh Hunger when no other bleeding effect is available?
Beeing specced Mutilate that is OC.

Thanks Sakuru for the quick response and explanation.

Last edited by LemmiLemming : 05/20/10 at 4:27 AM.

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Old 05/20/10, 5:26 AM   #4920
Expose69
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Sakuru View Post
hi, I've been a silent reader for some time, and i want to thank you all for all the good work you pour inn here

this aside, I've been reading alot about having issues and trying to avoid energy cappin/pooling to much energy (as mutilate), this is where I'm raising a questionmark, because my experience (overall) is quite the oposite, i have issues pooling enough energy maintaining a 4+cp rotation as well as keeping my envenum uptime maintained, i feel i alway am sweating for those tics of energy to come in faster than they do cus my envenom is in alot of instances dropping off my target before i can toss in another envenom to refresh it...

anyone with the same experience of energy?
This happens alot in 10 mans and when i'm hitting the target dumby, but in a 25 man fully buffed raid i actualy have to be carefull that I don't energy cap.

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