I have a couple of questions regarding regarding the changes to FOK in 4.0.1.

First of all, how does one calculate the proc rate of poisons applied to the thrown weapon?

Second, does FOK still possess the ability to proc [Heartpierce], or is not considered a "melee" attack?

If you only have one stack of DP on a target as Assassination, you have much larger issues, as you should get to 5 stacks in the first 5 seconds or so of the fight and stay there for the duration.

Is there some magic poision generating ability i am missing then? I have a 1.4 weapon, sure with Snd and my haste that brings it down to like what 0.85 or something. And I'll have 2 mutilates in before i get 5 CP, now deadly poision is as far as i know only a 50% proc, and this being a random 50% there will most definatly be times when im only at 1 2 or 3 stacks when enenom time comes.

Edit: haha i think ive found out why i feel like ive been having trouble with poision and dps in general, I had macro for starting to auto attack by casting mutilate, so i made it out to be /cast Auto Attack /Cast mutilate, which ive been spamming like a spastic for 2 days now. Dont worry though changed to /startattack now. But anyway my point still holds kind of true, lets say your current target died and you are changing to a new one and you instantly get off 2 mutilates, your snd is running low and you need to refresh, How many stacks should he have for you to use envenom/evisc? Fully plausible that said target only has 1-4 stacks of deadly on it. And its a situation i run into quite frequently seeing as im doing alot of heroics.

Assuming the target is about to die soon anyway though maybe i should rupture instead of Snd to get a quick energy boost, thats a different situation/question though i guess.

Typically between WF (10%), SnD (40%) and Haste Rating (~30%), you have around 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.4 = 2x haste; hence your OH should get down to around .7 speed. In 5 seconds, you get 5/.7 = 7 autoattacks with it, plus have 120 + 13 * 5 = 185 energy, which is sufficient for 3 mutilates with a finisher for good measure (thanks to RS). So that's 10 OH hits, and thus an expect 10 * .5 = 5 OH procs. And since you continue to refresh it an average of once a second, it will never drop off on its own. With Master Poisoner, it doesn't drop when you Envenom. So you get stacks up after 5 seconds (give or take) and it refreshes enough to not drop. Hence you should already have 5 stacks after your opener. And since you need to get both SnD and Rupture up before worrying about Envenom... there's just no way you should ever be low on stacks.

Hello

Just want to ask simple question, yesterday going on ICC 25 and was little confused about amount of procs Mongoose from both hands, only 5 with combat duration 2:04 (combatlog World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis) and i think about second chant as Berserk, does it be better or not? Whant to hear your opinion

Aldriana has already addressed why you should never really be low on dp stacks on a target that has combo points on it. But regardless: if your snd is about to fall off, you need to envenom. Maintaining rupture is a priority for the normal rotation, but that's assuming you already have 100% uptime on snd (which...you do). You'll waste a huge amount of damage by letting your snd fall off because not only do you need to sacrifice the damage of an envenom to reapply, but you'll lose out on buff uptime resulting in a lot of poison damage.

So in the circumstances you've put forth - which should reeeally never be the case - you should still be using envenom to refresh snd. Even if your dp stacks are somehow low. The >0 damage of envenom and the buff uptime are still significantly more damage than refreshing snd manually, and even with low dp stacks the envenom's upfront damage is probably still a bargain for 10 energy.

The reason this is relevant is because, in the case of redirect, there *will* be situations where you have cps on a new target that has low dp stacks and you're going to cap if you wait for them to stack. In which case the priority is still envenom>rupture if snd is going to fall off.

I believe the OP was not only concerned with Rupture and S'n'D uptime but also whether Envenom>Eviscerate in a <5p DP situation. Since Evis and Envenom both refresh S'n'D this is still a valid question. Of course this only happens once in a blue moon as long as your hit and exp caps are fine but it *does* happen.

I have always assumed that the Envenom buff more than compensated for the slight decrease in direct damage but I have as of yet not seen the question addressed post-4.0.1. Intuitively I will still use Envenom over Evis (as Ass) every time but I've never crunched the numbers.

It's pretty intuitive. The troll activated racial is the best on horde, but orc expertise bonus can push them ahead if you're using the appropriate weapon in your mh. Blood elf is slightly better than undead, and both are pretty significantly worse than troll/orc - as far as racials anyways.

Gnomes/humans/dwarves just depend on your weapon. Gnomes are probably going to be the most consistent since mut is so strong now and is projected to stay that way. Ignoring expertise bonuses, though, humans would be the best because their pvp-trinket effect will get you out of roots/stuns/fears for more dps time whenever the encounter mechanics are built that way.

Goblin and worgen racials are both exceptional. 1% crit and a mini-sprint on worgen will likely make them the strongest alliance race in cata, and goblins' 1% haste and rocket belt or boots should make them at least competitive with the stronger horde races. But we don't know. We won't know until we have raid gear and have a new version of the spreadsheets.

Edit: Apparently the worgen racial is now crit, which is much more in-line with other racials.

Your answer doesn't seem intuitive, it seems more conditional.

The Worgen racial was changed from 1% damage to 1% crit. I'm interested in the math; is the crit better than the expertise assuming there's an appropriately itemized weapon for the correct spec.

Again, my apologies if it's already in the spreadsheets and I missed it, but I was looking for the discussion/math about it as well as a better answer than "wait for the next version of the spreadsheet."

Hello , as the armory doesn't show Reforged stats , I would like to make sure I understood it well. At the moment the priority is capping Hit Rating ( see Aldriana's faq about caps ) , cap Expertise rating ( new cap which is lower ) and then reforge Crit Rating into Haste/Hit depending if they are already present on gear. This way (assoming you already hitted the Expertise cap) you keep Haste and Hit on gear and reforge Crit rating. Is this a correct way to manage reforging?

Quite some time ago, Ming posted some math on envenom, and came to the conclusion that while a 1 DP / 5 CP envenom was not as strong as a 5 DP / 5 CP envenom, it was still at heart a 5 CP envenom. To my knowledge, this hasn't changed. The analysis was relevant primarily to pvp, but the take-home message was that if you were on a target you wanted to envenom and had the combo points and at least a single deadly, envenom was going to be your correct call.

I do agree it would be nice to know for the new universe, however.


I would imagine, however, that even if there WAS a difference between envenom and eviscerate in eviscerate's favor, the full duration envenom buff would more than make up for it in a normal pve situation.


Fan of Knives is, as near as I can tell, considered a ranged attack in all ways now. I haven't tested to see if it won't proc heartpierce, but I have done some testing and observed it do all the normal things ranged attacks do- ignore parry and dodge, be affected by the +miss % chance of an enemy rogue's evasion, not get mirrored by blade flurry, etc.


I believe it's still unresolved regarding the proc rate of poisons versus thrown weapon speeds for the ppm poisons (instant, wound), and I think the assassination talent is also unresolved as to how it figures out the proc rate for the main and offhand poisons that are also applied. I did purchase some tracker's knives (2.2 speed) to test, though I'm probably missing some goofy 3.0 speed level 20 white or something that would give me statistically significant results faster. I'm still hoping someone else comes along and tests it because, well, that's a heck of a lot of fan.