Leto

Doesn't the pocket guide fit this bill?

As for pvp, I'm not as well versed in the community, but possibly arenajunkies.com?

Rogue at heart.

 

Soulburn

Combat Fist Spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft with [Crimson Steel]
Cycle: SS - SnD - Rupture (5CP) - SS - .. Envenom if possible.

Combat Dagger Spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft with [Sinister Revenge]
Cycle: BS - SnD - Rupture (5CP) - BS - .. Envenom if possible.

"Simple" question (problem) is;

I'm having trouble with Combat Dagger spec. Trying to figure out, why my dps decreased after switching to a better (actually the best dagger in game) weapon.

Thanks in advance.

 

robfang

Because the combat dagger spec is broken atm. It is not good for anything. Try mutilate instead if you wish to use daggers.

 

Perini

Well, now that I have your attention, I will ask an even simpler question:

Am I correct in assuming that the only time to use Eviscerate within a Mutilate rotation is when you have zero applications of Deadly Poison on target?

 

• Neto-

Yes. Last time I checked, with raiding gear, even an Envenom at 1 DP stack (4+ CP) was better than an Eviscerate. However, there are situations where Eviscerate might be the best choice - interrupted fights, for example, if you Envenom you won't have time to benefit from the poison application buff, and thus it would be a better choice to Eviscerate and let DP tick away.

 

Perini

Thanks, Neto.

Is there a consensus on a 3rd glyph? I was looking at Garrote and Ambush.

 

Lord Xar

Hey. I have an observation - unfortunetly no hard data handy, just observation.

I switched from a rupture combat fist build to a eviscerate combat fist build and noticed a significant boost in my dps. 15/51/5

the standard rotation would be 4-5SnD / 5r /3-5evis (depending on energy regen, movement etc..)

I noticed large crits and crit frequency with eviscerate (have evis glyph, in additon to rupture glyph) and decided to test something out.

Well, I noticed at least a +200/dps increase in heroic runs and about a +400 dps increase in raid runs when I switched to just your standard 5snd/5evis rotation.

Has anyone else noticed this dps increase contrary to the standard rupture rotation?

 

Tinwhisker

When 3.0.8 hits live, I imagine most Mutilate Rogues will grab Feint as their 3rd glyph but until then I'd just use what makes you happy as neither of those will significantly affect your DPS over the course of an encounter.

Edit: There's also been some talk about other Mutilate specs using double IP and Eviscerate as a finisher; it's fairly untested in 'real world' and not something I'll be swapping to anytime soon but it's out there and the math is fairly solid. In that case you'd want the Eviscerate glyph obviously.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Perini

I can't imagine that being likely on (raid) boss fights. I use Evis on raid trash and Heroics frequently because with well-geared groups, even bosses go down before Rupture is likely to run its course.

 

Perini

I imagine that could be tested on dummies pretty easily just for prelim. data.

 

Tinwhisker

It's reliant on other players keeping your target poisoned for the added damage to Mutilate; dummy testing would require at least one other player to help and even then you won't get real raid buffed numbers which could easily swing it either way as the calculated difference is quite close.

If you really want more info, I believe the discussion starts here (3 pages back).

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Erebos_Agamaggan

Global Cooldowns for cat druids is the same as the global cooldown for rogues, which would be 1 second, correct?

 

drumbum

Yes. Although to be clear, the length of a GCD is determined by the ability that triggered it. Rogue specific abilities such as Sinister Strike, Mutilate, Eviscerate, Slice and Dice, etc., trigger 1 second GCDs, but things like quest items, potions, some trinkets, etc., which are not class specific will still generate 1.5 second GCDs even when used by a rogue or cat druid.

Therefore it's really more accurate to say that rogue and cat druid abilities trigger a 1 second GCD.

 

miteethor

My guild is starting Nax 10 and we are doing ok, got about 8 bosses down the first week. We have 3 rogues that could possibly go at the same time. I'm trying to convince them that they are stupid to NOT go HaT with me and do crazy damage, but for whatever reason they think they are just fine and are too stubborn to respec.

Are they retarded or am I giving HaT too much credit in 10-mans? Is there a simulator or parse of a 10-man Patchwerk I can show them?

 

drumbum

It's arguably against the TOS to intentionally exploit the HaT bug. I haven't heard of anyone getting banned for it, because it's kind of ridiculous to ban someone for merely speccing a certain way, but nonetheless it's clearly premeditated in many cases, and in those cases Blizzard would be fully justified in banning those involved. Although I doubt they would do this, I just like to throw that out as a disclaimer.

It strikes me as a little odd how many people, especially on these forums, openly state that they are intentionally exploiting a bug as if there was nothing to be concerned about.

 

Tinwhisker

There's no DPS check in the game that would require all the rogues to exploit a bugged mechanic. It might be nice to see those bugged numbers but they'll be gone soon enough. HaT itself is fine and a pretty cool idea on Blizzards part but stacking HaT rogues to gain multiple combo points is something else entirely.

If I were you I'd stop name-calling and respect their decisions to raid on their own merits and not on that of an exploit.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Jedai

I searched the forum for more information about the broken Combat / dagger Spec and could not find some clear, short answer. Could someone please link or explain it ?

 

Tinwhisker

Combat daggers isn't broken in that there's some flaw that prevents it from working, it does work as advertised. It's 'broken' because the mechanics involved (ie Backstab) don't produce nearly the DPS of a Mutilate or Combat (Sinister Strike) build.

Without diving into detail, Backstab is a very poor combo point generator for it's energy cost and you get better damage/energy and combo point/energy in a Mutilate build. There are other reasons as well (eg a good build requires more talent points than we have available at 80). If you're going to use daggers, go Mutilate.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

saedo

It's not broken, just dead. Well, takes a backseat to Mutilate, a dagger build that beats out every other non-bugged build in single target dps. So why bother with an inferior spec?

 

theldaran

On the question of why people are so relaxed and seemingly at ease about exploiting the game via the HAT bug; Mutilate rogues who are specced, geared/gemmed/, and using a proper rotation aren't scratching the surface of equvilently geared BM hunters at this point and time. I myself have fairly decent naxx 10/25 man gear and because of the daggers that have dropped for me it has become optimal for me to switch back to DP/IP instead of IP/IP (which was not enjoyable considering the 10 some odd posts it took me to convince the general community that it was viable)... In any case with decent gear playing mutilate the traditional way I manage 4300 or so dps on patchwerk.... BM hunters in my guild are breaking 4700. 400 points of dps may not be the insane difference it once was, but it certainly takes the neccesity of bringing a rogue to a raid out of the game.

Because of this fact, it seems apparent that HaT, although it is a bug, is a way for rogues to remain competitive, granted it is thorugh an obvious and extraordinarily large exploit, but blizzard has already stated that the way they are going to make rogues competitive WITHOUT bugs again is to increase our dps instead of nerfing fury, BM, affliction, and blood/frost dk's to the ground. (Odd considering what they are doing to BM in the coming patch; seems a bit contradictory....) So if this is the case, our dps is only going to up anyway, maybe not in the way of 2000 dps that HaT seems to have over mutilate, but up none the less. Until blizzard does alter our dps, it seems a way to ensure yourself a raid spot, otherwise I can't see why a guild (assuming they have the resources) brings 2 rogues when they could bring two more ranged with better survivability, raid synergy, and dps.

Everyone cries, everyone whines, everyone loves to complain. The only difference between those who we look up to and those we look down upon is when they cry, when they whine, and when they choose to complain.

 

SoleSteeler

Hey all,

Currently I'm specced 7/51/13, but the spreadsheet is always listing me as doing higher DPS as 15/51/5. However, from one post in the T7.25 Rogue Gear Discussion thread, it appears that 7/51/13 is better. Am I right in assuming it's better only after reaching a certain AP level, since the build relies on heavier Ruptures from Serrated Blades? If so, does anyone know, approximately, how much AP that is? Here's a link to my armory: Id. I'm trying to figure out if I should just respec to 15/51/5 now.

One other thing, which I can probably figure out easily on my own but maybe I could just ask here: if you look at my armory, is it obvious that I'm benefitting from the extra +5% crit buff from Close Quarter Combat? 34.41% crit seems pretty damn high for someone who hasn't socketed for agility or crit at all, with a few pieces of gear definitely being suboptimal.

Thanks

 

• Feist-Mok

It's not any one stat per se.

15/51/5 will scale better with 3 finisher cycles, higher amounts of crit, and more energy regen via hit/haste - basically anything that results in more frequent Sinister Strikes crits, will scale 15/51/5 ahead.

7/51/13 will benefit more from raw AP, as well as from armor penetration.

Different people have found different results with different gear setups between the two builds, though i don't think anyone has spent enough time with the sheet to figure out where the breakpoints are.

 

perttifin

Just a quick question about trinkets. It seems that Fury of the Five Flights / Mirror of Truth and Darkmoon Card: Greatness are considered as the best trinkets at the moment but spreadsheet shows that Grim Toll is superior to Mirror and a bit better (about 10 dps) than FotFF. Is Grim Toll really that good below poison hit cap or is there something I have missed? My gear is mostly 25 man Naxx stuff and I have set all common raid buffs on.

 

Gentoo

What do you guys prefer: attack power or agility for gems? I haven't found a concrete answer, one spreadsheet ranks attack power above, while another favors agility. Is the DPS margin so small it's really a personal preference? I also read somewhere that attack power scales with poison damage because its a spell, is that true? Thanks

 

Snooks

I just wanted clarification about a rotation for mutilate build.

When I have ended up with 4 CP I have been shiving for five then using a finisher.

Is it best to :
a) use either finisher at 4 CP
b) shiv to five only for envenom
c) shiv to five only for Rupture
d) always shiv to five CP before finishing.

???