We put no emphasis on hit because it is just one of many stats.
Hit has increased value if you sit under the poison hitcap, but this does not make the stat the be all end all choice for everything.
Are you better off gemming hit when below the poison hitcap? Probably.
You might as well check the spreadsheet for that instead of asking because chances are people don't want to do that for you.

Regarding highend rogues. You measure that by equip? Because Epix are realy no good measure for how well a person knows his theorycraft at all.

You know what? Forget all I said. "DON'T STACK SINGLE STATS!" There that's my answer.

Rogues in WotLK have to pay attention to a lot of stats. Changes in gear will change how much each stat is worth. Sometimes gemming for a single stat is what is called for and sometimes not. Use static EP weights or one of the spreadsheets listed in these forums to determine what you should be doing.

Also, be very careful about looking at player armories. Looking at their gem/gear choices and assuming why they did it is not the best idea. They may not be going for max DPS in the gear they logged off in or they may have a different playstyle that dictates a different scheme. It's ok to get ideas from the armory but then take those ideas to a spreadsheet and see if they work for you.

To supplement what tinwhisker said, another thing to consider is that with such an emphasis on AP and not on +hit, there's a good chance they logged in their PvP gear.

I have been reading this forum regularly. I have searched,but can't seem to find the answer to what might be a dumb question. I just got my second Webbed Death and have respecced to Mut. I am having the usual learning curve after being Combat for as long as I played.

My question is:


I am wondering whether I should regem to increase my Expertise? I can't seem to figure out this from the spreadsheet.

I am:

Agility 1134
Damage 508/641
Power 3557
Hit 154
Crit 35.15%
Expertise 15/15

So, I wonder if I should regem with some Expertise.

Thanks so much in advance for any help.

Naknek

You are well under both the expertise cap and the poison hit cap. According to the best spreadsheet around (and as summarised in this post, for Mutilate, hit (up to poison cap) is the most powerful stat. Expertise / agility / AP are all close, but expertise has benefits beyind its EP value in terms of cycle stability. So yes, gem hit and expertise in every socket until you are expertise capped and poison hit capped. However, always remember that you can get 40 of either from food, so it's worth giving yourself about that much wiggle room so you don't have to regem every time you get an upgrade.

I don't have the screenshots here at the moment...

But I've recently gotten several glancing blows against level 80 mobs with me using maxed dagger skill...

Does anybody know why this is occuring? I was always of the impression that glancing blows only occur against mobs that are more than 2 levels above us from a def vs weapon skill point of view.

My last naxx run I'd say I hit 4 combo points 90% of the time, usually through a cp proc and a mutilate crit. This led to a lot of energy capping with all 3 core timers still running (HfB, SnD, and Rupture). When I had plenty of time on all, of course I would envenom. However, when I get closer to 3 seconds left on rupture, I started trying to mutilate up to 5 cps. Almost everytime this would screw with my cycle, making it difficult for me to hit a 4cp or greater envenom.

Basically, I've been wondering whether or not in such circumstances (~8s left on both HfB/SnD, but only >3s left on rupture) if it's worth refreshing HfB to simply prevent energy capping to avoid dropping rupture up time. I'm aiming for 90% rupture uptime, but is the extra envenom (noting a potential energy cost of 155 to get back to rupture-ready) worth the rupture downtime?

Using Anarchy+LBC right now until I get a better offhand or 2x omens or whatever.

MH Anarchy, OH LBC... Berserking on both? Or wait till better oh and then berserking both?

Is there any complete list of "which ability proc which poison"? I'd sure like to see one.
As for now I assume that: Mutilate and FoK can proc both poisons, SS/Backstab/Hemo/Ghostly - MH, Shiv - 100% OH on landed hit, SnD - none, Envenom/Rupture/Eviscerate - MH. Ambush/Garrote can proc MH too, but it doesn't matter.
No other ability procs poison. Are my assumptions correct?

Unless the ability is bugged, every single special ability that swings with your mainhand weapon (as in, hits the target) should proc a mainhand poison, unless stated otherwise. Hence, yes, your assumptions are correct: the only exceptions are Mutilate, Fan of Knives and Shiv, but the tooltip says so.

Edit: Cheap Shot will also apply your mainhand poison.

I recently Won a roll on a second [Hatestrike]
I have been Mh greed Oh hatestrike.

Now being Hat spec I was wondering if it would be beneficial to use [Hatestrike] Mh and Oh, Losing the 5% crit from CQC But gaining hit Ap and Crit rating.

Greetings all,

First post here so i'll try not to make a complete arse of myself.

Currently both the optimised mutilate gear sheet and the rogue spreadsheet put my theoretical dps at about 4.5k. However I seem to be failing to get particularly near this. Unfortunately I dont have a WWS parse handy but for example on patchwek my dps was at about 3.5k (not exactly appalling but still 1k dps difference isnt precisely small). Raid setup is generally ideal for buffs, boss debuffs so I'm wondering if either I fail (which is ofc possible) or I'm doing something slightly wrong.

Typical combat:

With HfB up,

Open (not from stealth) with mutilate, SnD, muti, Rupture, muti, envenom (at work so can't make sure this is right but it is what I recall). From then its the usual muti and envenom if rupture isnt about to drop whilst refreshing HfB (usually when it gets to about 1-1.5s left). I'm pooling energy before envenom to make the most of the envenom buff with a mutilate or two but never let energy cap.

Any advice on anything I'm obviously not doing right? It seems in line with the "quick and dirty" advice for mutilate but I'm keen to get the most out of the spec. One thing I'm not doing is vanish to take advantage of overkill but I doubt this accounts for 1k dps.

Appreciate any advice. I have read other posts but didnt notice anything I was doing wrong.

I believe glancing blows have been occurring against equal level mobs since early in Burning Crusade. They probably haven't been noticed much before patch 2.3 (when expertise was introduced) since most PVE rogues were specced into one of the old weapon skill talents, which would have pushed your weapon skill high enough to eliminate glancing blows against equal level mobs.

Also, glancing blows cannot occur in PVP, even though they are equal level.

Make sure the spreadsheet is only accounting for the buffs you actually have - even with good raid setup you're quite unlikely to have all of them. Other than that, make sure you don't mutilate on 4 cps (which I'm sure you'd gathered from the other posts) and keep practicing.

I've found this to be true as well. A good example is the "Heroic Presence" buff; I'm often put in a group for this buff but since none of our Shaman are Enhancement I have the buff for very little of the fight, especially when there is a lot of movement involved.

Comparing ideal buffs which I could very well have every fight to the ones I actually get for the entire fight drops my "total DPS" by as much as 600. Lets not forget too that I may think I've eaten my food buff but I didn't really (I do this all the time). The only time I really have all of them reliably is during Sarth+3 and my emphasis on that fight is surviving, not DPS.

If my guild was in a hard progression mindset right now for more than Sarth+3, these things would be issues. Taking a hard look at all my buffs and gear I only find myself off by an amount that could easily be explained by movement or something else (as a side note, I've never hit my mark on a non-gimmick fight either for those reasons). And as my guild gets ready to take some serious attempts at "Immortal" in Naxx I assume that my DPS will drop there again as I emphasize survivability over DPS.

I can't get the expertise numbers to match. I do trust my spreadsheet on the cap so I'm not too worried, but I'd like to know how it works as well.

From the pocket guide:
My character tab tooltip:
I'm human, and I'm Fist/Sword so that is of course the reason why there are two numbers. From my pure Expertise numbers (22/25) it looks like I'm way above the cap (16 / 13 according to the Pocket guide). But my expertise rating (103) seems much closer to the cap (107). The spreadsheet also puts me at 5.50% and non-capped.

From what I can gather, it looks like the Expertise rating in the pocket guide is correct, but that the Expertise number is not. Or is it just explained in a non-intuitive way? I'm curious because I both want to know how it works, and I'm worried that most people might not understand it.

I had a couple questions about trinkets.

1) What is the correct way to calculate the weighted value for a trinket's on-use or on-hit effect?
I've always done it like this: ((effect bonus) * bonus weight) * duration) / cool-down
but the values I get rarely match the values listed on rogue gear sites like shadowpanther

2) Is duration clipping an issue worth considering? By this I mean, it seems likely that you will often lose out on portions of an effect's duration, usually the beginning and/or the end, due to latency, reaction delay, gcd, energy pooling, etc. If that's correct, then would not an effect with a longer cooldown be of greater value?
Just to try to be clear what I'm asking: assume you have two trinkets that both have the same basic effect and cooldown, but have different durations.
Trinket 1: lasts 10 seconds, gives 1000 AP
Trinket 2: lasts 20 seconds, gives 500 AP
Thus the weighted value on paper should be the same. However, if my clipping idea is correct, then it seems like the one with the longer duration would be more valuable, because if you lost, say 2 seconds from each duration, you'd end up with 8 seconds of 1000 AP vs 18 seconds of 500 AP, the latter of which is clearly superior.

This is basically asking whether it's better to have a on-use buff (1200 AP for 10s out of every 120s) or a constant buff (100 AP).

The answer is it depends. Sometimes you lose value from a proc or a on-use trinket because you can't dps during it's entire duration. This is compensated for somewhat by the fact that you don't have to think about triggering a proc trinket, and that you can time on-use trinkets to stack with other cooldowns or for parts of the fight where you need a sudden surge of damage.

Fight duration has a major effect and is mostly out of your control. 3min50s fight? Better to have constant buff. 4min20s fight? Better to have three trinket uses.

Finally, your example seems suspect. Sure, you lose less total duration from the longer proc, but you're also twice as likely to have something disrupt you during the effect.

I believe the pocket guide numbers are ADDITIONAL expertise needed to hit the expertise cap. So as a human rogue with combat expertise, you only need 13 additional expertise. Just go off of your percentage, when in doubt. 6.5%.

I've got a question about Expose Armor. I am in a 10 man that doesn't have a warrior and I am wondering how many physical damage types it takes to make up the raid DPS difference and what sort of rotation might be used.

I have checked the spreadsheet recently and it says I'd be down about 500 dps using a 2s5r cycle. However, I'm combat Fist/Sword and find that the cycle more depends on keeping SnD up and using Rupture/Evisc whenever I can to get close to the spreadsheet numbers (on fights like Patchwerk). I did some quick math (before realizing the spreadsheet actually had an expose value) and came up with the following a couple weeks ago with a 5s/5r/5e rotation which I'm not quite able to maintain without more haste:

"At my current gear level (some T7, still some T6, and some high level blues), it looks like Expose is very good. The spreadsheet is showing around a 350 DPS difference from having Expose up and not. Rupture ticks away for about 4k damage which equates to around 200 DPS. When you can get an Evisc in it hits for an average of about 3k. Since that's on the 30s rotation, that's about 100 DPS."

It looks like even I'll be ahead using Expose. Has anyone done the math? Will I come out ahead, and/or how will the raid come out ahead using Expose in a 10 man?

Generally speaking my raid might consist of 3 melee (DK, Ret Pally, me) and potentially a hunter for physical.

Yes, the major armor debuff is sufficiently powerful that it's usually worth using it even if there is no other physical DPS in the raid.

I was about 600DPS behind my 3700dps spreadsheet projection a couple of weeks ago on Patchwerk, and I really was stumped. I'd frapsed it and everything to watch my rotation and it was damn close to perfect :P

Next week though I'd updated my version of Disco Dice and it reset the settings for it, now showing the duration and stacks of sunder armour. The damn MT kept letting them drop and this was quite a substantial hit to my damage. The following week with the same raid buffs and gear, I managed to be only 200dps below my projected DPS - which ofc I put down to RnG xD