Due to a lack of daggers dropping in Naxx for me, I picked up Silent Crusader and Widow's Fury so they didn't rot and have tried out Combat the last week....sadly, LPC and Fleshripper are still higher dps and I'll be returning to the Mutilate spec. Not only that, 4 SnD 5 Rup rinse repeat is really boring.

Anyway, the point of this was that Vulajin's sheet might take a bit of getting use to but in the end, it's going to be your best bet on accurately gauging your dps, Play with it, test out the specs, see how it turns out. The great thing about DPS is that it's all numerical, and the spreadsheet proves which way is better, whether you think so or not.

Trust the spreadsheet!

Hi Guys,

This is my first post, so dont be too hard on me. I've been reading a lot about the math and logic behind fast/fast for PVE. I totally understand that faster means more FA procs, more mutilates and most importantly more poison procs.

I have been running 2 LPC's with Mongoose and just started raiding. The guild I joined brought me right into 25 man Naxx, so a lot of gear was being handed over to me to get me up to everyone else's level. I was given Twilight Mist, a dagger which amazed me when I saw the stats. My question is, can it be possible that 2 LPC's would still be better than TM/LPC? Wouldnt the incredible stat increase on the TM offset the slower speed? I dont really know how to find out except to use a spreadsheet. The problem with that is Im using Linux at work and none of the spreadsheets have been very friendly. Does anyone have any idea if Im doing the right thing running TM/LPC vs LPC/LPC? I'm 51/13/7 by the way.

Cheers!

There seems to be a near universal consensus at this point that Jewelcrafting is the #1 profession at the moment.

What's the #2? My initial guess is Blacksmithing, due to the socketing (which comes out to around 80 AP?), but I just want to make sure.

Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, Inscription, and Enchanting are all almost exactly 64 EP, and thus relatively interchangeable. Blacksmithing is perhaps marginally ahead in that it is 64 EP in a stat of your choice, but if you already have one of the others I wouldn't bother rerolling.

Makes sense.

Would it be safe to assume Blacksmithing will have a (slight) edge in the future, when epic gems hit? Since each gem socket will be worth more?

Perhaps. At that point BS goes up to an 80 AP gain. That's if Blizz doesn't decide to rebalance around that value then.

Blizzard have said that all professions will get new things added over content patches.
JCes get new gems, the other professions will hopefully get something to match this but at this stage we don't what they will be.

Those 112 AP leg kits, the weapon sockets, and 4th glyph slot from beta could turn out to be Ulduar content.

I used to have 318 hit, which was just enough to hit the poison hit cap according to the pocket guide for wotlk but now i see that the person who came up with the values and such [Aldriana/Vulajin + possibly others, i don't know too much] have around 210 hit rating as mut. I'm just wondering if this is because they raid alot, and whilst raiding they usually have a shadow priest or balance druid + draenei to provide the hit rating debuff on the boss/mobs they are attacking and it makes up for the poison hit they don't have? sorry if it's worded weird >.<

just asking because i think this is the case and i changed around my gemming/enchants to replace all my hit rating with ap and i'm at around 226 hit rating now. wondering if it was the right move since i usually have a dreanei/balance druid/shadow priest in my runs

I managed to get a greed from H-CoT last night. I was mutilate at the time but decided to switch specs to try it out given that the fist weapon greed was far superior to what i was using. My question is, is lethality or serrated blades a better talent for a CQC type of build using Fist/Dagger.

Could depend on your gear, but the spreadsheet shows Lethality is better (in my gear).

That is exactly the reason.

4% from raid buffs means you only need 210 hit rating to be at the spell cap.

Horde need 237 due to the lack of heroic presence.

To follow on this: The DPS loss by gearing for AP/Agi as if you have those buffs, and then not getting them, is smaller than the DPS loss of gemming for hit up to the unbuffed cap, and then getting a spell hit buff anyway, therefore, in this case, it's better to gear for having a Spriest or Moonkin than to not. Of course, the ideal is 2 sets of gear to swap around, but most of us aren't quite that lucky yet.

The pocket guide has 2 lines, look at the 2nd one for the meta gem req one, and it already assumes epic gems.

Well right now it's 3 54 AP gems, over let's go with 1 32 AP gem, 1 Blue 16 AP gem, 1 Yellow, 16AP/8crit gem, to cover meta gem req. That's an EP diff of 3x54 - (32+16+16+8*1.6) = 85.2 AP This does not include extra socket bonus you might pick up, which would range from another 8-12 EP.


Well to match, they'd need a 16 AP boost from the current profession bonuses. 112 AP would be too much, they'd either have to tone it to 91 AP, or just introduce a new rank of Fur Lining. Weapon sockets defeat the purpose of balancing around BS's new 80 AP value so they won't do that, well unless they want to raise everyone's by 80+AP instead of just 16AP. The 4th Glyph slot is very hard to balance around so that's not going to happen either.

Are you getting Opportunity in your spec? For some reason everytime I go that spec its lower then 15/51/5, but then you point 2 points in Opportunity and it comes out on top. Therefore 15/51/5 should still be better, I'm not sure if this is a bug with the spreadsheet or what, but I know Opportunity doesn't account for 200 DPS.

When I put 2 points in Opportunity, my dps doesn't change at all (and it shouldn't, as I don't use any of the abilities that Opportunity enhances). Check the Talents & Settings tab of the spreadsheet; you probably have your combo point builder set to Mutilate.

Yes I forgot, ignore my post

I was playing mutilate with 2 Webbed Deaths. I got Kel's Reach on our last Naxx 10 run. I plugged both into the spreadsheet. I changed around gems and glyphs a bunch of time.

I found that the highest total spreadsheet DPs I could get with all the combos was:

Mutilate 3881

Combat 4147

This surprised me. I thought that a Mut spec would be right about the same as a combat spec for max dps. I went back and rechecked everything in the spreadsheet to insure accuracy.

I prefer playing Mut in 25 mans. I prefer Combat in 10 mans. I don't do many heroics, but would prefer Combat if I were. But, I don't want to give up almost 300 dps.


My question is whether there are intangibles that would make the mut spec do more damage, roughly on par or greater than the combat spec in actual use as opposed to the spreadsheet numbers?

Am I missing something here? I always have read and heard that Mut does as much or more damage than Combat.

Thank you.

EDIT: I think it solved my question. I was plugging in DP/IP. I found that the Spreadsheet assumes 3.0.8 which removes the extra poison proc. When I changed it to IP/DP the DPS on the spreadsheet went up to

4037 from 3881

So, mutilate is within 30 dps of Combat. When I get Calamity's grasp, the Spreadsheet says I will have 4147 dps, which will be about 100 dps more than Mutilate......very insignificant difference.

Sorry for the post without realizing the spreadsheet had been changed.

/facepalm

I have been searching these threads for the answer to my question but I haven't had any luck so I apologize if I have missed it.

I am making the switch from mutilate to combat swords and I know that in mutilate we want fast daggers - I had two Papercutters - but how does that logic work with the switch to swords? I have tried to work this out in my spreadsheet but I can't get on that lets me use my two swords. I have an Avools Sword of Jin and I was about to buy a Grasscutter - but I can't see if it will be an upgrade over my Reaper of Dark Souls.

I also have a Greed - but that doesn't look like a dps increase.

Please excuse my English - not my first language.

It's under a different talent mechanic so there's no special reason to go for 2 fast weapons as combat. Just the offhand for Combat Potency. Greed should be a dps upgrade over Reaper, make sure you change the talents correctly.

Yes, but it doesn't change my DPS calcs with or without. I just assume it's current gear/stats. I've never had 15/51/5 come out better than the increased rupture damage from serrated blades on the spreadsheet. I've not actually raided with 15/51/5 so I don't have any real stats to compare.

There has to be something else you're not changing in the spreadsheet correctly, because you should always get higher numbers with Mutilate than with Combat, assuming you're at the same gear level (which you would be).