Rogue: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 5

Zujamar · 11/19/08, 6:55 AM

How desirable would a slower mainhand (2.7+) be for combat rogues, in comparison to other equipment attributes? Also taking into accound scenarios like Imiut mentioned where you might be using Wound Poison on your mainhand as well.

KingZer0 · 11/19/08, 8:41 AM

Has Mungo been downranked when you reach Level80?

heeps · 11/19/08, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Vonhinten

Question: Totally naked and untalented, equipping a fist weapon increases critical strike by 5%. Why, and is it a bug that is expected to be corrected soon?

Wielding no weapon, your character sheet calculates crit chance by your unarmed weapon skill. If your unarmed weapon skill is low, you lose a significant amount of crit.

MissnL1nK · 11/19/08, 10:53 AM

I am sure this subject has probably been brought up on previous threads but I can't seem to find any solid answers as of yet. Most of the topics are based on Mut builds and don't really apply to Combat.

When using a 15/51/5 Combat Sword spec is it more efficient to use Evis over Env for a finisher or better to stack DP then Env.

Currently I use Wound/DP on my weapons but I have trouble deciding between Evis and Env.

Troisloeil · 11/19/08, 12:18 PM

There's a significant discussion on it in the Rogue PvE thread. Start at page 165-166.

Generally speaking, as a CS, I've found the 4s/5r cycle to be the most effective until going for the kill. I'm looking to ride the 5 stack of DP and Rupture till I'm looking for the killing blow. Eviscerate for filler.

For you, I'd recommend doing some modeling on the effects of your poison enhancers. I've found it hard to tell as we're also getting damage bonus' striking a poisoned target.

I'm speaking only to Combat here. Other specs have considerations that may change that. There's still discussion as to whether heavy Assassination or Subtlety will give Combat the best punch at 80.

There's a new thread created to discuss just this. It should prove very interesting.

MissnL1nK · 11/19/08, 12:33 PM

Yea I keep seeing discussions trying to prove if Assassination or Combat is the best raiding build. I never see any solid proof to which is the best yet though.

songster · 11/19/08, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by heeps

Wielding no weapon, your character sheet calculates crit chance by your unarmed weapon skill. If your unarmed weapon skill is low, you lose a significant amount of crit.

Fist weapons also use your unarmed weapon skill, so this does not answer the OP's question.

Underz · 11/19/08, 1:00 PM

What is the *general* hit threshold at early tier 7 level?
For example at 70 tier 6 i would have said 280-320 you would generally want to have. It seems gemming attack power is the way to go, however i would have thought getting the poison hit cap is favoured first?

Darktangent · 11/19/08, 1:06 PM

I asked once already but didn't get a reply so I'll ask again. What spec is the new top dps spec? Shadowpanther lists a combat spec with serrated blades from sub, but I was leaning towards getting lethality and vile poisons. ALSO, I need advice on a trinket, Tears of Bitter Anguish, they're not on wowhead or shadowpanther, stats are 73 haste rating and chance on crit to increase haste rating by 410 for 10 secs. I need to know how it compares to other epic trinkets before I waste 6k gold on it. One more thing. What is the agi to crit % and crit rating to crit % ratio at 80?

tetracycloide · 11/19/08, 1:06 PM

There is no *general* hit threshold. There are specific points at which hit rating becomes less effective than before but these are merely points at which the vaule of hit rating changes. In general you want to maximize DPS which could mean 0 hit and it could mean hit capped depending on what gear is available and what each stat is worth for your build and raid setup.

The best answer would be to look it up in the spredsheet to compare different pieces of gear. Barring that the second best answer is to evaluate gear choices based on the rough stat weights @ 80 posted earlier in the thread.

I'm going to repeat this again for emphasis because it is rehased so many times. There is no 'minimum' or 'threshold' amount of hit that is required to raid for any build and there never has been. All DPS stats add DPS, stack whatever combination you can to get the most DPS.

MissnL1nK · 11/19/08, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Darktangent

I asked once already but didn't get a reply so I'll ask again. What spec is the new top dps spec? Shadowpanther lists a combat spec with serrated blades from sub, but I was leaning towards getting lethality and vile poisons. ALSO, I need advice on a trinket, Tears of Bitter Anguish, they're not on wowhead or shadowpanther, stats are 73 haste rating and chance on crit to increase haste rating by 410 for 10 secs. I need to know how it compares to other epic trinkets before I waste 6k gold on it.

There are many things on Shadowpanther that I have found to be false so I wouldn't necessarily go by that site at the moment until it is updated properly. From what I understand the 2 top DPS builds are currently 15/51/5 and 51/13/7, with no real proof as to which is better atm.

Kumar · 11/19/08, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Darktangent

I asked once already but didn't get a reply so I'll ask again. What spec is the new top dps spec? Shadowpanther lists a combat spec with serrated blades from sub, but I was leaning towards getting lethality and vile poisons. ALSO, I need advice on a trinket, Tears of Bitter Anguish, they're not on wowhead or shadowpanther, stats are 73 haste rating and chance on crit to increase haste rating by 410 for 10 secs. I need to know how it compares to other epic trinkets before I waste 6k gold on it. One more thing. What is the agi to crit % and crit rating to crit % ratio at 80?

For one, its too early to know "top" DPS specs. There are recommended specs for Combat/Mutilate that would provide Optimal DPS on bosses.

As for Trinket, use the Spreadsheet. Apart from that, I am not a fan for "Chance on crit" items as they require you to first crit (which is a chance itself).

What is the *general* hit threshold at early tier 7 level?
For example at 70 tier 6 i would have said 280-320 you would generally want to have. It seems gemming attack power is the way to go, however i would have thought getting the poison hit cap is favoured first?

Gemming Agi seems better to me, but it could differ from combat builds to Mut builds. As per Hit, my goal is to reach the Poison Hit Cap and reach the Expertise Cap.

Troisloeil · 11/19/08, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by MissnL1nK

There are many things on Shadowpanther that I have found to be false so I wouldn't necessarily go by that site at the moment until it is updated properly. From what I understand the 2 top DPS builds are currently 15/51/5 and 51/13/7, with no real proof as to which is better atm.

What I'm getting as well. So far the main thing I'm seeing is some of the other specs becoming very viable in PvE. Combat Swords is still going to be the king by a hair until we get more information from modeling 80.

They're both going to do solid damage. Just make sure to leave the "e-peen" out of it, 1st or 3rd in DPS, the only thing that matters is taking the boss down. Choose the one that seems to work best for you, and take it for a spin.

I'll likely be going the Sub route for the added Survivability myself.

chalon · 11/19/08, 2:35 PM

What I'm getting as well. So far the main thing I'm seeing is some of the other specs becoming very viable in PvE. Combat Swords is still going to be the king by a hair until we get more information from modeling 80.

Most modeling which was done showed that 51/13/7 will out-DPS 15/51/5 by a slight margin on most stationary fights (we're talking a 1-2% DPS difference). There are certainly some fights where Combat has the advantage, however.

HaT is pretty much out of the question until people get geared up again. Everyone's crit chance has gone down substantially, and as such you won't generate enough CPs to compete with the other two builds.

Brickipedia · 11/19/08, 3:14 PM

In reference to mutilate dagger speeds, I know that faster is better for both oh and mh given equivalent dps, and assuming equivalent dps on daggers you want the faster in your main hand. However I am wondering if there is some (weapon) dps equivalent for a .1 change in speed, on both OH and MH daggers. I know as combat I used 10 weapon dps per .1 speed for OH and was wondering if there was any equivalent for mutilate. Thanks