Pierced

"Mutilate: this ability will no longer give poisons on the off-hand weapon two chances to be triggered."

you're saying that because of the bug fix in the patch, right?
just confirming :]
also will this change effect our overall dps by much or is it pretty irrelevant?

 

Duck2h

Hi I've been a longgg time reader and now a first time poster after realising i have enough spare time to make an acount /giggle


Just a simple question i want to raise back because i could not find any in EJ forums + MMO+outdated blizz forums

"Regarding the use of the talent <Relentless strike>, i am currently not using this talent and opting for vigor and others instead. I was pondering if having this talent would increase (60% of the time is safe to assume) your poison dps enough to be significant especially due to:
A) evenoming more after achieving 4CP from a finisher and mutilate and therefore increase poison damage

But say if you have <vigor> + glyph, allowing energy pooling and squeezing in 2 mutilate after evenoms should be quiet important too....(what i';m currently doing)

im still tossing up between relentless and vigor (assuming all other talent points tied up in say fleet footed and murder[plz dont grill me about this since i know most naxx bosses are not applied im just thinking if the bigger picture>_<"])


/pray i dont get grilled
/love all

Duckiee

 

saedo

Because without the bug, the MH will be able to proc IP more, due to finishers.


Vigor is not worth much because you'll never pool to 110 energy, that's called energy capping and you want to avoid that. There may be situations where you'd be forced to energy cap, but it's shouldn't be the norm. Go 100% relentless strikes, basically makes all your finishers cost 25 less energy.

 

kwinto

Vigor is useful on trash mobs (and will be even more useful in 3.0.8 with FoK spam), and on all bosses when your energy may cap because fight may be interrupted for more than 5 seconds, (for example, you have 50 energy and wait for 10 more to mutilate, but you just got Web Wrapped/Sprayed, Vortexed, changing Horsemen, pooling on Polarity Shift and so on). On those situations glyphed Vigor saves you 2 seconds of yellow DPS and sometimes can save rotation.

 

jac

Regarding maximizing trash AOE dps with Fan of Knives, would the ideal poison setup be double IP?

 

Jiposs

If you don't have Imp. Poisons in Assassination, I think WP would be better with the increased chance of applying it.

 

Kmannkoopa

Hmm, I like this idea, especially because in this case, [Anarchy] makes a better fan of knives dagger than [Webbed Death]; two [Sinister Revenge] is the best I reckon (but to get 2 only for fan of knives is just plain greedy.). I am going to have to work out a macro this evening and try it.

 

songster

Unless you're actually stunned and have no control over your character, your energy will never cap. You can refresh HfB early and/or cast tricks if it's off cooldown. Between them, that will save you around 5-6 seconds of time off target at full energy. It's not often you'll be forced away from target for longer than that, and even then Vigor will only "save" you 1 second of that (2 if glyphed).

 

Krollin

Unless trash clearing becomes a job that requires specific speccing I would not recommend speccing for it, in particular not for using FoK.
Vigor and Glyph of Vigor do not contribute anything useful to DPS where it counts, namely on Bosses, when compared to Relentless Strikes.

The easiest way to avoid letting cycles drop in the situations mentioned above is to be prepared for them. None of them are unpredictable to the extent that you should be getting caught unawares. Even when Web Sprayed you will have the energy to restack HfB on the run into Maexxna and there are ways of regaining energy (Thistle Tea) can give you enough to start with Mutilate immediately you get there. Not only that but you should be refreshing HfB just before a possible Web anyway.

Vigor and its Glyph are the preserve of PvP specs where the immediate establishment of control and burst damage are important and where the ability to sustain DPS over periods of minutes is not an issue.

 

Nantlas

Can someone explain to me how CQC for mutilate specs is better then master poisoner? Even though you would have small amounts of down time I would assume in a 5 man group the extra crit rating for everyone would be better. Unless I'm reading the tool tip wrong and its only for your own personal attacks?

 

Palidus41

The standard Mutilate spec with 3 in CQC is assuming a 25 man raid where you are basically guaranteed that either a Paladin's Heart of the Crusader or Elem Shaman's Totem of Wrath will provide the crit buff, and they do not stack.

 

Leto

Take CQC even if you need to take master poisoner, since it's better than turn the tables.

The option is whether to take master poisoner or turn the tables. If your raid needs the debuff, take master poisoner.

Rogue at heart.

 

Nantlas

So for primarily running heroic 5 man's I should take master poisoner and CQC, and not take turn the tables given that there is no other rogue in the group? Also from this cycle from the WOLTK pocket guide I would assume that if I had to choose between rupture uptime and SnD uptime I should choose rupture?

1. Mutilate to 4+ Combo Points
2. Make sure Hunger for Blood isn't going to drop soon. Refresh it if it will.
3. Is Rupture up? If yes, Envenom. Go to step 1.
4. Does Slice and Dice have >12 seconds left? If no, Envenom. Go to Step 1.
5. Rupture. Go to Step 1.

 

Solanthious

Hunger for Blood & SnD is your top priority, you only want to do the 4e/4r cycle as long as those 2 are up. As for running 5 mans, I wouldn't even bother with rupture, things die too quickly.

"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

 

weirdaljr

Hey guys. I have been a combat rogue for a long time, but I generally always try to spec around my available weapons to ourput max dps. My current available weapons in my arsenal are [Angry Dread], [Split Greathammer], [Webbed Death], [Anarchy], [Omen of Ruin], & [Twilight Mist]. For my combat build, even with mace spec not being great, the RC SS & test have shown [Angry Dread] & [Webbed Death] to be my best so far for combat and the duo wep spec. I have been seriously considering learning mutilate. I have a feeling I wont put up the same DPS numbers I am accustome to at first while learning rotations, but with thoes available weapons should I definitally be mutilate? The RC SS dosen't seem to compart well across builds from Combat to Mutilate, and obviously the mutilate SS isnt gonna compare well to a different SS. So what do you guys think? Switch to mutilate? Use [Omen of Ruin] & [Webbed Death]?

Any info or recommendations appreciated.
Thanks,

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Leto

If all you intend on doing is 5 mans, I'd go combat.

Rogue at heart.

 

Ascari

I have been using the 51/13/7 build posted on these forums. However i have been wondering, wouldn't it be optimal to drop the 3 points in CqC in favor of Turn the Tables for something like this? 54/10/7

I am only wondering. Ascari is my alt so i don't play her as much but when i do i only do 10/25 man with her so there will be alot of dodging/blocking/parrying from the MT.

 

songster

No. CQC affects all your damage with daggers, while Turn the Tables only affects your combo moves. Combo moves are only ~20% of your damage, so even 100% uptime on the TtT buff (which isn't guaranteed) still leaves it far weaker than CQC point for point.

 

lucian666

Greetings everyone!!

This is my first post and I am really excited about the upcoming changes in this patch....my major question is: now we are using the fastest dagger MH with IP and a fast in OH with DP....with correction of the Mut bug we are going to use de fast in MH and fastest in OH...but with what poison? I am assas...

I couldn't find the answer for my question yet....but if it had already been answered, forgive me ^^

 

• Feist-Mok

Assuming you're running with a ret or prot paladin (Or, in some cases, a holy paladin - though YMMV here), or an elemental shaman, you're better off just skipping Master Poisoner.

 

Ascari

Ok that makes sense. Now about skipping Master Poisoner 3/3 and putting that into TTT 3/3 instead, would that be optimal for raiding?

 

• Feist-Mok

That would be optimal IF the 3% crit debuff is covered by another member of your raid.

 

saedo

Poison stays with the weapon. Weapon switches around to Fast(er) MH.

 

weirdaljr

Also, just out of curiosity, besides the questions above, is there ever any use in stacking arm pen? I know it isnt a great stat right now, but I do have the best MH and OH maces, and could do combat spec with serrated blades? I don't know spreadsheet looks like it is a NO, just wanted opinions on that, and wether Mutilate would be best with my current weapon choices.

THanks again.

 

saedo

Generally, you don't stack a stat just for the sake of stacking it. Use a spreadsheet to determine gear combinations.