yumepenguin

If Relentless Strikes procs for 1 CP after a finisher, Seal Fate will cause a critical Mutilate to grant 3 CPs, totaling 4 CPs. Seal Fate will generate the extra CP if EITHER hand crits on mutilate.

 

Lyphe

Curious to know what are now considered the best GLYPHS for a combat spec ( after the patch ) now that the MS 1min bug has been fixed.
My glyphs before the patch were:

- Rupture
- Sinister Strike
- AR

Without the MS bonus attached to the AR glyph, however, I was assuming that SnD would probably be the best choice for that 3rd spot.

Interestingly, and after running the most recent Roguecraft spreadsheet ... it showed the best DPS for that 3rd spot actually came from the Blade Fury glyph ( I have a hard time buying this though and would appreciate some feedback ). The spreadsheet actually suggested that my dps would benefit most from Blade fury ... AR ... and finally SnD in that order.

Has anyone looked at this yet, or run any glyph tests since the patch? Thx in advance ...

 

Leto

The spreadsheet uses a static cycle model, so it likely doesn't represent the full benefit of the slice and dice glyph.

It simply determines your slice and dice up time and uses that as a modifier to adjust your dps, while you manually adjust the cycles.

Adding the snd glyph lets you use fewer combo points on snd to maintain 100% up time, but it doesn't model the effects on a dynamic cycle.

Say for example you're using a 3s/5r/5e cycle on the sheet. The actual cycle you use would vary based on your luck with ss glyph procs and your remaining snd time, etc. With the glyph, you may not be able to fit in an extra finisher each cycle, but you will likely fit an extra finisher in some place due to not having to refresh snd as often, and that added benefit is not measured.

Rogue at heart.

 

Edrielle

Thanks for that mate, appreciated

Here comes the (embarassing) reason for me using EP values - as posted in the Pocket Guide to WotLK, those values I use... I don't understand how spreadsheeths work. I've downloaded one but I didn't get it, and yes, that probably makes me stupid. But could someone explain how to work with it please?

 

Iluat

Ok guys, thank you, last question: what about opportunity? Better 2/2 there, or 2 more in close quarter combat?

 

drumbum

This is not true. If the debuff applies, that means the debuff is actively affecting the mob. In any situation where the Wound Poison debuff appears, it means their healing really will be reduced by 50%. (But, most raid bosses don't ever get healed, hence why Blizzard doesn't bother to make them immune to it.) The damage effect of Wound Poison is essentially a separate mechanic from the debuff, so even raid bosses that are immune to healing debuffs are not generally immune to the damage from Wound Poison.

And no, you cannot apply a Crippling Poison debuff to a raid boss. This is easy to tell if you've ever raided with Deadly Brew before (e.g., Vault w/ PVP spec or something).

 

◊ chalon

2 points in opportunity is quite a bit more valuable than 2% more crit. Trust me, the math has been done rather extensively to prove 51/13/7 is the highest DPS mutilate spec.

 

Rhysel

Spell damage slightly enhances poison procs damage, right?


Not that you would want to gear for spell damage, but for instance the new Fish Feast includes both 80 AP and some SP increase, making it the new best rogue food?

 

• Aldriana

Nope. Poisons scale with AP, not spell power.

 

khayman68

I have a a few questions in regard to Mutilate Spec. I am sorry in advance if I missed this information, if you know where I should have gone please point me in the right direction.

1. Why is Master Poisoner not a more widely accepted Talent?
1a. Why is it not showing a change in DPS in the RogueCraft LK 0.4.4 spreadsheet?
1b. Wouldn't the increased "critical hit chance" improve the entire raids DPS and therefore be more useful to the raid?

2. Would Vigor have any impact on a long fight?
I get the impression it is really only useful right off the bat or if I make a mistake in my cycle and wait too long when pooling energy. I am assuming it is just a cap lifter, rather than a way to increase energy generation.

3. With Vigor, the improvements to Fan of Knives (No Cooldown, 150% Dagger Damage), the help from Overkill and the improvement from the Glyph of Vigor (witch seems to fill an empty glyph slot) wouldn't this be a lot of AOE damage right of the bat
3a. Couldn't it really help draw Agro to a Tank and make Tricks of the Trade a better way to pull a group of Mobs?
3b. Is this not worth the Talent Point?

 

• Aldriana

1) Because there are other sources of the debuff in raids; it's generally assumed that you have a pally or a shaman keeping it up. If you don't, of course, Master Poisoner is obviously a good choice.
1a) Because you have the debuff activated on the buffs/debuffs page even though you're not specced into it.
1b) See previous 2 answers

2) Short answer: no. Long answer: if movement makes your energy cap out, yes. It also makes a slight difference in terms of ability to pool energy effectively. However, for a sustained PW-style fight, the difference is minimal at best.

3) FoK + TotT is great burst aggro whether you have Vigor or not. An extra third of a a FoK isn't going to make or break your burst thread.

Fundamentally: Vigor's a perfectly good talent, and I'd love to be able to take it... but from an optimal DPS perspective, there's simply more important stuff to take and, hence, no room for Vigor in the spec.

 

◊ gwystyl

1. Master Poisoner is absolutely an accepted talent, but it is redundant if you have a ret paladin or an elemental shaman in your raid group. Any 25 man raid group is very likely to have one of these, but if none exist, you should spec into MP. We are the least optimal choice for this buff, though, since every time you envenom you the buff will drop (albeit not for long)
1a. It wont show a change if your buff sheet has TRUE marked for the "Critical Strike Chance" buff (cell C21). If TRUE is there, then it is already accounting for this buff so you speccing into it will not make any difference.
1b. Yes, as stated earlier it is better for you to spec into MP if there is no other coverage of this.

2. Vigor's impact is felt at the start of the fight and after any forced stoppage. When you're off-target, you'll once again enjoy the benefits of a larger energy bar when you re-engage.

3. FoK with Vigor is a very nice burst AoE ability, yes.
3a. Tricking a tank and spamming FoK makes AoE tanking something available to any tank while your TotT cooldown is up.
3b. Vigor being worth the talent point is about a trade-off. In Naxx, where Murder is of limited value, you could easily take a point out of Murder and place it in Vigor while raiding. In future instances, where Murder is hopefully going to take a more prominent role, your other option is dropping to 2/3 Ruthlessness which will simply reduce the number of finishers you get to pull off.

Edit: Aaaand once again, Aldriana is quicker on the draw.

 

khayman68

Thank you Aldriana and gwtstyl for your fast and informative answers.

 

Darkness280

I was curious about enchants on weapons for both pvp and pve. I got a sinister revenge the other night and I was wondering if I should just do a 50 ap enchant or mongoose. Berserk of course would be better right? But it's a bit out of my price range at the moment.

 

◊ chalon

I seem to recall seeing something that in 3.0.8 the PPM for Mongoose was being reduced to 1.0. I can't seem to find a link though, so that might just be a rumor and not actually true.

However even if they didn't reduce the proc rate, Berserking is better. And now in 3.0.8, the armor penalty is substantially reduced.

 

Darkness280

As I said, berserking is out of my price range so I'm asking of the 50 ap enchant is better or mongoose for pve and pvp on sinister revenge.

 

songster

If I happen to be the one providing the Master Poisoner debuff, what's the optimal thing to do put on my AoE weapons? Dual IP as per usual, or IP/DP? If I can debuff the AoE mobs with DP, I'll give 3% crit to the rest of the AoE. Yes, it's trash, yes it won't be a lot of difference. I still like to optimise whatever aspect of the game I can.

 

• Feist-Mok

If you're looking to get AoE MP up, you're best bet is probably wound poison or speccing Deadly Brew.

Given the shortage of availiable points in the tree, wound poison.

 

Terenus

Given the recent change to FoK, and a crit rate of 45% and 4000 AP, at what number of mobs does simply spamming FoK pass single target dpsing?

 

• Vulajin

It's roughly 3, given my previous analysis of FoK, which I'm sure you can find in some thread around here.

 

Dev93L

Simple enough question coming up.

What DPS are the top Rogues posting right now? I am considering coming back to my Rogue after playing my dual wielding Death Knight, and would like to do some of my own comparisons. The highest I've seen is 6,000 from one thread here on EJ. Is that about right?

Disclaimer: I have searched the web, read over various sites, tried to click multiple wws links from the Subtlety build, Cally's Pocket Guide, tried searching the Rogue forums, I even tried downloading the spreadsheet to build the max theoretical DPS to answer my own question, so I am extremely sorry if it is a well covered issue. I know such things are very frowned upon here at EJ.

 

Pierced

i think i've seen 5.5k with the best possible gear from a mut rogue on patch with like EVERYTHING
spreadsheet says 5.2k? i think

Q: is it better to use cold blood with mutilate or with envenom with 5 dp stack/5 CPS [because that's what i'm currently doing]
thanks

 

• Feist-Mok

Somwhere in the 5-6k range is typical, with the higher end of that tending to be indebted to sub-optimal (for the raid, good for the rogue) buff stacking like Hysteria.

 

Lexz

Is Wound poison better than Instant Poison due to the higher proc chance? Because I've seen many rogues using it latelly.

It's more than half damage of Instant with more than twice proc chance.

 

◊ chalon

If you have less than 2 points in Improved Poisons, Wound is better than Instant at reasonable AP.