I have to admit to giving up trying to find this analysis at this point, you are quite prolific here.

I did some FoK testing with a Mutilate build last night and the following, while obvious to some, may be worth reproducing here.
The results are anecdotal because raw numbers are statistically insignificant due to their sample size.

1- At my gear levels in a 5 man FoK on 4 mobs beats single target DPS. This would scale up in raids where more buffs are available.
2- Having SnD up and actively attacking a mob in the pack increases your DPS significantly due to additional FA procs reducing the time between FoKs.
3- Getting SnD started SnD with a Shiv (horror!!) reduces the lead time on your FoK sequence and I found it to be the best way to maximise my FoK DPS in longer AoE based engagements.
4- Choosing the the mob to attack for FA procs: the longest lived one, if mobs of different types are in the pack, means you can Shiv (if you need a CP) to Envenom to refresh SnD
5- Starting FoK sequences from Stealth should go without saying.

To provide hard numbers would, obviously, require a more rigorous set of tests.
Testing using target dummies would require being able to hit varying numbers of them.

My suggestions:
Cycle FoK against 1, 2 and if possible 3 dummy targets with IP/DP under the following conditions
- Without white attacks: simply standing in range of the targets. Establishes base line DPS
- With white attacks only on one target. DPS with FA procs from white attacks.
- Start cycle with a Shiv to get SnD up and attempt to maintain SnD during cycles.

I am not sure how best to test the effect of Overkill on FoK DPS, almost certainly require repeated stealthing and restarting your cycle in order to obtain a large enough sample size.

If I have time on Friday I will see if I can do the above on the level 80 dummies and post the results here.

FoK is quite laughable btw, there were alot of cases in yesterday's naxx25 where I was top trash dps, and didn't even bother using sinister, but doing it with 2xwebbed and not even optimizing it's use, only autoattacking some mob.

I believe its better spent on envenom due to its lower chance to crit.

in general, if you use it on mutilate, you have a higher chance at having wasted cold blood on something
that would have crit anyways.

according to Wowwiki's attack table section

This was stated back in 2005 by a blizzard employee.

does this quote still hold some truth, or has something changed?

and if this is true;
How would one calculate the actual crit percentage on white damage
assuming the 24% estimated glancing blows chance overrides crit.
and with the minimal 210 hit rating, assuming draenei aura.

mainly i'm looking for a simple formula, as to which I can calculate my crit cap with an ideal raidsetup,
so I can effectively alter my gear to compensate.

If this question is unclear, I apologize.

"Miss ->Dodge -> Parry -> Glancing Blow -> Critical Hit -> Hit" ( from here )
should be the base to calculate your critcap.

having the yellow-hitcap that would then be ( assuming behing the mob )

for yellows with 0 exp:

0 % Miss - 6.5% dodge - 0% parry - which would leave 94.5% crit-cap ( yellows arent subject to glancing blows, are they ? )

for whites with 0 exp:

18% Miss - 6.5% dodge - 0% parry - 25% glancing -leaves 50.5% crit-cap

so basicaly there would be a theoretic Critcap of 75% for whites and 100% for yellows, if one would be exp/hit -capped

Hope i got this right

I've used the search feature and have come up empty handed, but I'm guessing it's been addressed before and I'm simply not seeing it. So, I apologize in advance for the rudimentary question.

Is there any importance to group makeup that we're in? Or do all the non-consumable/environmental dps de/buffs that we care about come from raid-wide abilities such as Sunder and Windfury Totem?

Due to the enormous number of posts on HAT builds pre 3.0.8, I'm finding lots of posts via google and EJ searches on group make about HAT rogues, but very little for non-HAT rogues.

Try to get a Draenei in your group for the +hit, that's it. Melee Draenei work best (warriors, enh shaman, DKs, etc) because in the case of ranged classes/specs it may drop a lot.

I actually do only find 25% on EJ and wowwiki, anyway just add 1% to the calculated value for that if the glancing blows are only 24%

For the reduced crit-chance agains a bossmob , add 3% to be necessary on the char-screen -> 75% cap would mean 78% on the char-screen

found this here

unless he was proven wrong recently?

Playing as mutilate, is there any number of stacks of deadly poison on the target that will make it more efficient to do eviscerate than envenom, or does the envenom buff mean that doing a 5cp envenom on 1 stack of dp will do more damage than eviscerate?

so my values are wrong, my bad.

what doesnt really change, unless i am wrong again is th way to calculate the crit-cap

27% - YourHitChance = Miss %
6.5% - YourExp% = Dodge %
Glancing Blow %
100% - miss% - dodge% - glancingblow % = flat crit chance %

add to the flat crit chance the 3% plus 3 time 0.6 % and that should give you your critcap according to the char-screen

210 hit with 32.79 hit-rating per 1% Hit plus 5points in precision + 1% hit from draenei would be 6.4 % +5% +1 % = 12.4% hit

27%( base miss )-12.4% hit = 14.6% miss
exp-cap removes the dodge = 0%
24% glancing

100% - 14.6% miss - 0% dodge - 24% glancing = 61.4 % flat crit-cap

to achieve that cap , char-screen-crit should be 61.4 %+ 4.8% = 66.2 %

hope this is correct and answers aour question.

yes indeed, I copy pasted that number from our guild forums, where I noted that I rounded up the numbers.

I failed at mentioning that

Yes, you should always use envenom over eviscerate. If there aren't any stacks up yet, pool energy until there is one.

OK, so I'm not a spreadsheeter and I won't do this myself, but I read and study what others learn. I'm wondering what is the answer to this question i.e. the 3 best glyphs post 3.0.8 for combat rogues. Pre-patch I had the glyphs of SS, SnD and AR. Should I change the AR glyph back to Rupture?

Pre patch the best glyphs were SS, Rupture, AR. If you are only interested in maximizing boss dps, the best 3.0.8 glyphs for 7/51/13 combat would be SS, Rupture, Blade Flurry. Most people go with SnD instead of Blade Flurry, since 25 energy every 2 minutes is somewhat trivial, and SnD allows you to spec 15/51/5 and perform better on mobile fights/trash.

Isn't IP/IP + evisc a better option on Loatheb than DP/IP Envenom? It seems the spore buff would easily push the critable double IP to the top.

Don't forget you need a poisoned target for Mutilate to do full damage. It doesn't have to be *your* poison, but the target needs to have a poison debuff up.

It's been said but not recently, hunters are an excellent source for this, because of talents and glyphs it's always in their best interest to have their own poison on a target (eg Serpent Sting). You don't even have to ask them; provided they're not a drooling idiot, they're doing it already no matter what spec they are.

There were several posts regarding "where is the crit cap?" so I'll just summarize everything in this post instead of responding to specific posts.

Yellow attacks and white auto-attacks work completely differently and shouldn't be treated alike. Yellow attacks use a two-roll system, very similar to the way spells work. White auto-attacks however use a one-roll system. The most important thing to take from this, as it pertains to the question asked, is that the crit cap for specials is not affected by avoidances like dodge, parry, miss, etc. Therefore:



The extra 4.8% is there to counter the observed 4.8% crit chance reduction when attacking boss level mobs. Also, since the question was asked above: No, yellow special attacks cannot glance.

Since white auto-attacks are single roll, the crit cap for them would be affected by avoidances. Therefore, you could calculate the crit cap by subtracting your combined avoidance chance (miss + dodge + parry + glance + block) from 104.8%. As long as you are behind the mob, parry and block are 0%. Glance is always 24%. Therefore:

Yes, I was aware of this, but a quick clink on Demi's armory led me to believe he was more in 10-man content and you don't always have a hunter or a fellow rogue in your 10-man crew. Still, good to explicitly re-state things like that so new rogues can enjoy a quiet "ah-ha!" moment.
:P

Is there a thread anywhere anywhere that lists all possible buffs that benefit rogue dps? I know the consumables, but I'm interested in making sure I'm aware of all the different specs out there that contribute dps for melee classes.

Hm, I guess this is covered by the spreadsheet but I can't open it with Google Docs.