My DPS is okay, bit low to what it should be, it is in the low-high 3k margin on boss fights, spreadsheet says i should be doing 4.2k+, i think the decrease in my dps is me not fully understanding how Find Weakness works. I keep reading that Find Weakness works by how much energy is pooled, however all posts i've read that on were from when level 70 was the level cap ( i didn't play a rogue then). Has the mechanics of it been changed? Because the tooltip on it now says anything about different results with pooled energy. If someone could please lay it out for me it'd be much appreciated.
Sorry for any silly grammar mistakes. I'm very tired.
My DPS is okay, bit low to what it should be, it is in the low-high 3k margin on boss fights, spreadsheet says i should be doing 4.2k+, i think the decrease in my dps is me not fully understanding how Find Weakness works. I keep reading that Find Weakness works by how much energy is pooled, however all posts i've read that on were from when level 70 was the level cap ( i didn't play a rogue then). Has the mechanics of it been changed? Because the tooltip on it now says anything about different results with pooled energy. If someone could please lay it out for me it'd be much appreciated.
Sorry for any silly grammar mistakes. I'm very tired.
The old find weakness provided a buff that lasted for ~10 sec or so on a finisher, thus pooling energy before a finisher allowed you to get more attacks in under the effects of the buff. The new find weakness is a static +dmg % increase to your abilities, so no pooling is necessary. They changed it in 3.0.
The old find weakness provided a buff that lasted for ~10 sec or so on a finisher, thus pooling energy before a finisher allowed you to get more attacks in under the effects of the buff. The new find weakness is a static +dmg % increase to your abilities, so no pooling is necessary. They changed it in 3.0.
Thanks that's what i thought!
Oh well, back to the drawing bored to find out where this missing DPS is!
I would like to know if DP procs from envenom aswel in MH (since it removes all the DP's, before or after this proc)?
Because if my DP stacks are consistently low because of my 1.8 wpn speed, I could put it in MH with DP.
Yes, if you do put DP in your mainhand there is the possibility that it could proc a DP stack from your Envenom resulting in 1 DP stack after the Envenom consumes the DP stack. However, putting DP in your mainhand to build stacks faster by this method will only give you one extra chance to apply it over your rotation, whereas with IP in your mainhand you have a chance to apply the more damaging poison.
Originally Posted by Anonymousrogue
i think the decrease in my dps is me not fully understanding how Find Weakness works. I keep reading that Find Weakness works by how much energy is pooled, however all posts i've read that on were from when level 70 was the level cap ( i didn't play a rogue then). Has the mechanics of it been changed? Because the tooltip on it now says anything about different results with pooled energy. If someone could please lay it out for me it'd be much appreciated.
Find Weakness has changed, it's now a simple flat percentage damage increase. Pooling energy before Envenom finishers is still a good idea though as mutilating while under the Envenom buff provides greater poison proc chances.
I'm new to the site but I've been very actively reading Elitestjerk's forums for some time now. That being said, I'm still a bit confused as to which spec truly is the best for rogues at the moment. I raid extensively and have a nice assortment of weapons including [Calamity's Grasp], [Webbed Death], [The Hand of Nerub], [Hailstorm] and [Silent Crusader]. For a second dagger all I've come across unfortunately is [The Fleshshaper]. Here's my armory too: Chlovis
Since 3.0.8 patch release I've tried combat swords, combat fists, combat fist/fast sword, combat sword/fast dagger, combat fist/fast dagger, Mutilate and unbugged HaT spec. I keep my rotations up perfectly according to what is on the pocket guide. I've tested each setup in raid situations as well as on test dummies.
In 25 man raid situations Mutilate is putting out ~3.2k dps and HaT is putting out ~3.0 dps for me. Any variation of combat is much much worse at ~1.9 to ~2.2 dps. I'm reading that each of these specs are comparably close in dps and the spreadsheets are showing me roughly the same but the true results are not even close. This leaves me with the following two questions:
1) What am I doing wrong with combat spec?
2) Which combination of any in-game weapons and spec will truly put out the highest raid dps?
Just one thing I'm noticing when looking at your profile - you're combat/fist (at least at this moment) and you're wearing way too much expertise gear. I don't know if you just don't have alternatives in some of those slots, but with Weap. Ex you're at 39 Expertise and the cap for reducing dodges from behind is 26. 13 expertise above cap is a lot of wasted stat points that are useful when you're mutilate but really go to waste in lieu of something more beneficial like Crit or AP as Combat.
Aside from that, with your gear level and weapons, as long as you're using Wound/Wound or Wound/Deadly (with Cg/Hailstorm), doing 5s/5s/5e or 3s/5r and using AR/BF/KS heavily I'm not sure what to tell you, 3k should be pretty baseline for that gear level.
Also keep in mind how your damage can scale from raid to raid based on who's there - having a Feral druid one week and not having one the next can make a pretty big difference in your DPS, for instance.
Hey guys, First post so go easy. Right now the best weapon enchant in game is Berserking but when i plug it into the spreadsheet the DPS increase i get is only 10? I'm currently stuck with a Murder MH / Twilight Mist OH with mongoose. My goal is to have 2 webbed death with berserking but i have no luck with WD. Just curious if the spread is wrong and the effect of berserking is much greater than 10 DPS. Thanks
Hey guys, First post so go easy. Right now the best weapon enchant in game is Berserking but when i plug it into the spreadsheet the DPS increase i get is only 10? I'm currently stuck with a Murder MH / Twilight Mist OH with mongoose. My goal is to have 2 webbed death with berserking but i have no luck with WD. Just curious if the spread is wrong and the effect of berserking is much greater than 10 DPS. Thanks
Berserking isn't a huge upgrade over Mongoose, however some have said the Mongoose PPM was reduced to 1.0 in 3.0.8 which would reduce its value - not sure if that's a rumor or not though, couldn't find any posts by searching to confirm or deny.
Berserking isn't a huge upgrade over Mongoose, however some have said the Mongoose PPM was reduced to 1.0 in 3.0.8 which would reduce its value - not sure if that's a rumor or not though, couldn't find any posts by searching to confirm or deny.
This change is reflected in the Roguecraft SS, but I have not seen anything in the documented or undocumented patch notes to confirm the change. There was a note on the change in Executioner, so you would think the Mongoose change, if it happened, would be noted there, as well. Anyone have any empirical evidence or proof of this?
This change is reflected in the Roguecraft SS, but I have not seen anything in the documented or undocumented patch notes to confirm the change. There was a note on the change in Executioner, so you would think the Mongoose change, if it happened, would be noted there, as well. Anyone have any empirical evidence or proof of this?
I tried to figure out where/when this happened when I heard about it a few weeks ago. From the information I've been able to uncover Mongoose's proc rate was changed to 1 PPM a good deal before 3.0.8. Unfortunately I don't have any solid evidence/information I can link regarding when it actually happened. I'm still looking into it and will post information if/when I find it.
Mongoose was tested around the time of Wrath beta and found to have a reduced proc rate at that time. There is a significant delay between when we found out that the Mongoose proc rate had reduced and when I made the change in the Roguecraft sheet.
Mongoose was tested around the time of Wrath beta and found to have a reduced proc rate at that time. There is a significant delay between when we found out that the Mongoose proc rate had reduced and when I made the change in the Roguecraft sheet.
In our 10 man Naxx, on Gluth our hunter is tasked with kiting the Zombie Chow, leaving me to deal with the enrages. Last week, I raided as combat and just replaced my OH DP with Anesthetic for the fight. I figured that since I was Eviscerating instead of Envenoming, losing the DP while keeping Wound on the MH was the best choice.
But this week, I am back to Mutilate. Envenom is my standard finisher, so DP is important. As I see it, my three choices are 1) IP MH, Anesthetic OH and Eviscerate; 2) DP MH, Anesthetic OH and Envenom; and 3) IP/DP and use a weapon swap macro to slap an extra dagger into the OH with Anesthetic for a shiv, and then swap back.
Both 1) and 2) seem sub-optimal - 1) loses the extra damage and proc from Envenom, and 2) loses a ton of IP damage. 3) Seems messy though - swapping in a new weapon will cause a GCD and reset the swing timer on both weapons by 1 second if I remember correctly. I'm also a little uncertain how the reswap will work when both of my daggers are LPCs - I assume macros can be done to make sure the right dagger ends up in the right hand, but I haven't had any experience with writing such a macro.
Anyone suggestions for the best way to handle this? We have enough DPS that I could do this poorly and we will still kill him. But I would much prefer to play well and not just faceroll.
I always do it by weapon swapping - a simple macro handles it perfectly. The same works for Sartharion, as well. The GCD isn't a big deal as long as you don't let HfB or SnD drop.
Use this macro:
/equipslot 17 <name of your Anesthetic Poison weapon>
/equipslot 17 Librarian's Paper Cutter
Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty
I always do it by weapon swapping - a simple macro handles it perfectly. The same works for Sartharion, as well. The GCD isn't a big deal as long as you don't let HfB or SnD drop.
Use this macro:
/equipslot 17 <name of your Anesthetic Poison weapon>
/equipslot 17 Librarian's Paper Cutter
Macros run into issues if you happen to have 2 of the same weapon equipped though - I ran into a bunch of trouble with this with 2x Webbed Death when I tried to swap in 2 slow weapons and then swap back to my 2x webbed. I ended up having to use an addon (Closetgnome) to switch otherwise I'd only end up with one dagger getting equipped and it getting swapped between hands leaving me unarmed in one hand.
Macros run into issues if you happen to have 2 of the same weapon equipped though - I ran into a bunch of trouble with this with 2x Webbed Death when I tried to swap in 2 slow weapons and then swap back to my 2x webbed. I ended up having to use an addon (Closetgnome) to switch otherwise I'd only end up with one dagger getting equipped and it getting swapped between hands leaving me unarmed in one hand.
Hmm, I was afraid of that. My normal setup is dual [Librarian's Paper Cutter], with a [Knife of Incision] to swap in for the quick shiv. I'll have to play around with ItemRack's script commands to see what I can make work.
So I'm fairly well geared, but I have this sense that I'm definitely under performing for my gear level. We don't have a feral druid or correctly specced warrior I believe, but even without that, it seems that I can't even reach the theoretical numbers on Patchwerk. I'm wondering if i'm missing some more subtle things to improve my dps that I need to do. I mean, I can pretty much keep up SnD, Rupture, and Hunger for Blood all day no problem. I pool energy and use a vanish for some overkill.
But what else is there? I try to save up enough energy for a mutilate after every envenom, I try to avoid clipping ruptures at all times. I think to my knowledge, the only thing i'm not doing is timing my envenoms on poison tics, mainly cause I don't have a mod that times that. Can that be *that* significant of an amount of dps? (We're talking I believe, in the realm of 500 dps on Patchwerk). Is there anything that I could be missing that could help me here?
For what it's worth, the two other rogues in my guild did similar on Patchwerk as well, I just think that there's such a huge gap between theoretical and reality that surely I can improve somehow. I even read reports that the spreadsheet undervalues mutilate and I should be doing *more* than what is stated!
After the first few weeks of Gluth kills, we decided as a guild we'd be better off just healing through the enrage and me going with my usual poison combo. I was weapon swapping before but I had two paper cutters that I swapped - which caused all sorts of clunky problems.
The enrage isn't a raid wiper, so just nuke through it - I'm sure your healers can manage
For other fights though which I presume will come in the future with a much more punishing enrage, I'd recommend weapon swapping.
So I'm fairly well geared, but I have this sense that I'm definitely under performing for my gear level. We don't have a feral druid or correctly specced warrior I believe, but even without that, it seems that I can't even reach the theoretical numbers on Patchwerk. I'm wondering if i'm missing some more subtle things to improve my dps that I need to do. I mean, I can pretty much keep up SnD, Rupture, and Hunger for Blood all day no problem. I pool energy and use a vanish for some overkill.
But what else is there? I try to save up enough energy for a mutilate after every envenom, I try to avoid clipping ruptures at all times. I think to my knowledge, the only thing i'm not doing is timing my envenoms on poison tics, mainly cause I don't have a mod that times that. Can that be *that* significant of an amount of dps? (We're talking I believe, in the realm of 500 dps on Patchwerk). Is there anything that I could be missing that could help me here?
For what it's worth, the two other rogues in my guild did similar on Patchwerk as well, I just think that there's such a huge gap between theoretical and reality that surely I can improve somehow. I even read reports that the spreadsheet undervalues mutilate and I should be doing *more* than what is stated!
All I can suggest is that you make sure your spreadsheet accurately represents your rogue. I was missing 400dps consistently at one point until I realised I had a buff set to TRUE which I never got in a raid. I disabled that and now am able to get within 100dps of my projected figure each time we do patchwerk.
At the end of the day, the spreadsheet output can be used on relative terms to work out which buffs/gear/gems/enchants are best for you. If it says 4000dps and a potential upgrade increases it to 4050, you know it's definately an upgrade despite the fact you're only doing 3500 or whatever.
Hi, i'm trying to put together the best sword/sword spec, but whereever i look there's 2 valid options for the remaining 8 points. Either it's Serated Blades or it's Ruthlessness and Lethality, but i can't figure out which will benefit to most to my dps...
I'm aiming for the best dps on bosses, so i'm not interested thrash dps.
Hi, i'm trying to put together the best sword/sword spec, but whereever i look there's 2 valid options for the remaining 8 points. Either it's Serated Blades or it's Ruthlessness and Lethality, but i can't figure out which will benefit to most to my dps...
I'm aiming for the best dps on bosses, so i'm not interested thrash dps.
The two specs you are referring to are completely based on your current gear.
I suggest you spreadsheet your gear and see what spec gives you a higher end result.
My guild did Naxx25 last night and I was having weird issues with Wound Poison that I couldn't really figure out. There were a few bosses where my WP kept disappearing off the boss long before it should have. It even got to the point where I would be shivving it on, watching it get applied, and then it would disappear within 2-3 seconds.
Is there something that overwrites WP now? If you have two Rogues in one raid (as we did last night), can only one Rogue have WP up at a time? Were we overwriting each others poison? I've never had a problem with that before that I've been able to see, so maybe it's new? Or is it stacking with another debuff now?
Only one rogue can have the WP debuff up at any given time. Thus, if you have two rogues in a raid with WP, they will continually overwrite each other's WP as they refresh it. This has no relevance whatsoever to their DPS, since the damage is dealt up-front when the poison procs. The debuff you see on the mob does no damage.
01/27/09, 10:18 AM
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