For thadius on 10 man and 25 man is it still worth it to rupture with a mutilate build when my envenoms will do 16-20k or something on 25 mans?

Charges do +%damage. Rupture does damage.

I think the most ideal situtation, if you can't keep it up constantly, is to at least make sure rupture is up right before a Polarity Shift. This will allow you to have a fully buffed rupture with 5 or 10 stacks of the polarity bonus, and it's still ticking for that amount during your phase change, when the groups aren't stacked up properly yet.

Maybe he means Loatheb, because I'm wondering that aswel

WP debuff also applies Savage Combat debuff, so if other rogue in your raid is using WP make sure (s)he has this talent 2/2 too. At least unless you're doing DP in other hand.

Even if that were the case, it's pretty easy to fudge the spreadsheet to check it out. Added 50% crit and compared the Xe (CttC) and Xe/Yr (CttC) cycles. It was less than 1 DPS difference. Don't forget Rupture is cheaper.

A simple search would yield many posts about this particular item, in fact someone posts about this item almost every day.

I would recommend utilizing How To Use Search if you don't know how to use the search feature.

To keep my post as on topic as possible; the mark trinket is one of the worst dps trinkets available in the game for a rogue of any spec.

I recently got Kelthuzad's Reach, and since it's supposedly the second-best Combat MH, I tried that out again, and after a couple of Malygos tries last night, and my dps seems way down from Mutilate w/ 2x LPC.

Here's my Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

(And yes, I know some of my gemming is just wrong, but the difference is relatively negligible/I made sure to stay under the Expertise cap.)

WWS: Try 1: WWS Malygos Try 1
Try 2: WWS Malygos Try 2

Compared to last weekish's tries as Mutilate: Malygos Tries

Anything glaringly wrong? (123 hit rating is fine, from everything I've read, hit matters even less after the yellow cap for Combat 'cause poisons account for less dps.) Is Combat just that undertuned or am I just bad at it? Anyhow, will probably be more conclusive when I go through Naxx, but I think the consensus is that tree needs some help.

There was some testing a while back which showed that a non-specced rogue will still maintain another rogue's Savage Combat debuff on the mob, even if the one specced for it stops attacking or dies. I would guess that's for this exact reason: to prevent Savage Combat dropping every time another rogue overwrites the WP debuff.

So I have looked into this with mixed results :

2x Webbed Death or 1 Webbed Death and 1 Sinister Revenge.

Basically I see 2x Webbed Death is considered 'better' with the new patch, if you have 25 man raid buffs optimally.

What I am curious about wouldn't Sinister Revenge be better in 5 man and to a lesser extent 10 man?

I have a hard time testing this, due to have an ever changing group setup in 10 mans. I use Vulajin spreadsheet, so a simple switching off buffs is not helpful as his shows SR ahead even 25 raid max buffed. Thoughts?

Mut question: Currently unable to cap exp via gear, worth it to gem exp over AP for now?

Hi Folks, long time reader, first time poster (ok, that's lame).

Anyway, I had played a Hunter since game launch and decided that WoTLK would be a great time to make a main switch. I made my rogue my main, but am really struggling with DPS.

Right now I am Combat spec with the [Silent Crusader] as an MH with Berserking as an enchant, and the [Widow's Fury] as my OH with the +50 AP. My DPS is OK, but I just can't compete with our Mutilate rogue. I hover around 3.2k DPS in my gear (also following the WOTLK rotation for Combat). Really frustrating!

I know that Combat is pretty gimped compared to Mutilate, so I decided to give Mutilate a try.

My gear remains the same, but in my MH I put [Webbed Death] with the +50 AP and my OH was [Sinister Revenge] with Berserking.

My DPS was horrible! I was able to keep HfB up to 3 stacks all the time and was following the rotation as to the T per the WoTLK pocket guide. I couldn't barely break 2K DPS.

So, my questions are this:

1. I know my gemming is probably not right for Mutilate, so I think I need to get Expertise gems and gear (I'm looking for suggestions here).

2. Is spamming mutilate (or sinnister strike as combat spec) the right thing to do?? Or do most folks just wait until the action becomes available then just press it..

Sorry for the newb questions.. I'm really trying to give this class a chance as I'm really having fun, despite being frustrated. :S

Thanks!

Pool your energy so that you get 1 or 2 mutilate off after every evenom to make full use of the evenom buff which allows more instant poison application. As long as you don't let HfB / SnD drop theres no reason to rush the mutilates.

Let me first start by saying that I am at my wit's end. Seriously. I hesitate from asking such general questions here, but this has to be done to save my rogue experience.

I float between the mutilate and combat fist/dagger builds listed in the Pocket Guide to WOTLK. I'm not one of those mutilate rogues who needed Imp SnD either. I keep everything up just fine.

I follow the rotation listed. I tweak it, get advice from other rogues, etc. I use the spreadsheet to the extent that I have it on all of my work computers. I do my damn research and VERY RECENTLY, I can no longer do respectable DPS.

I'm geared. I'm geared to the point where I should be pulling well over 3k on Patchwerk. I'm NOT. I was doing fine before and suddenly, I'm not. No one I've talked to or experimented with has any idea why this could be.

For combat fist/dagger, I've been trying the following rotation but I find I don't have time to keep everything up since my CPs AREN'T proccing (it took until the third round of the rotation for an extra CP to proc...). I can't even fit in an eviscerate. It feels a little odd, considering I have 39.2% crit.

Open with Garrote->SS->2cp SnD->SS to 5->rupture->SS to 5->rupture or evis->SS to 2->SnD

I feel like I'm missing something and I don't know what it is.

We can't tell you anything unless you give us something to look at. A WWS or WMO report would help immensely. If you were doing fine before and not fine now, it might be you aren't getting certain buffs.

I hope you are not standing in the green slime when doing Patcwerk? 1/10 of your stats left..

What does not makes sense, mutilate hits with bot weapons so it doesnt matter which one is in the MH, but finishers hit with the MH weapon, so fast MH+IP and slow OH+DP is the logical one and thus results in most dps

A couple things coming to mind:

1) Someone else mentioned this, but you aren't standing in the slime while attacking? That really only applies to Patchwerk -- if you are failing to do the damage you expect on other fights, I'm assuming that's not the issue.

2) Have you changed any glyphs for PvP that you haven't changed back to raid?

3) A 2s/5r/5e cycle might be too tight to maintain in practice. You can do 1s/5r easily enough, but if you want to Eviscerate consistently between Rupture and refreshing SnD, your cycle will have to look more like 3+s/5r/5e. Of course, cycles change based on the fight, and making decisions on the fly is part of being a rogue. Don't be afraid to deviate from that form if you need to adjust to something. Just remember the commandments... don't let SnD drop, maximize your time on target, etc.

EDIT: Looking at your gems, they are far from optimal for Combat; I can only assume you are gemming for Mutilate -- but even then they don't look right. Expertise is a lot more valuable to Mutilate than Combat builds... I don't know if you want to swap them for Agility gems instead -- I guess that depends on how often you spec Mutilate. But your yellow Hit (Rigid) gems should be orange Agi/Hit (Glinting) if you want them to be closer to optimal for both builds. You might want to redo your research, starting with the Pocket Guide to WOTLK.

Greetings everyone, I find myself in need of a UI modification that i'm not entirely sure exists. I'm hoping to find a mod that will display a timer for the internal cooldowns for my trinkets so I know when to pool energy for the procs on fights where I don't have the time to be mentally keeping track of the trinket procs myself. Does anyone know of something that would work for this purpose?

Try Procodile - Addons - Curse or Proculas - Addons - Curse

Note that I haven't used them, so I don't know how good they are or how well they will meet your needs.

My question deals with the talent tree abilities Ruthlessness and Cut to The Chase. Spending 3 points on Ruthlessness gives us a 60% chance to add a combo point. Spending 5 points in Cut to The Chase gives a 100% chance to refresh Slice & Dice to it's 5-point duration when using either Eviscerate or Envenom. I was wondering if every time you refresh Slice & Dice to it's 5-point duration does that count as another finishing move being used and give you another 60% chance to add a combo-point?

Doubtful.