• Feist-Mok

I can't see why you wouldn't use Ambush over mutilate to open from stealth, assuming that you don't lose DPS time by moving into position for it, and it generates 2 CP's, same as a mutilate. What you lose in crit chance, you gain in significantly more damage last I checked the numbers.

 

• Neto-

Well, it still generates less CPs than Mutilate; the average Rogue should have 85% chance to get 3 CPs out of a Mutilate, and your chance with Ambush would be 40% in that scenario (if Turn the Tables doesn't affect Ambush), so 2.4 CPs from Ambush and 2.85 CPs from Mutilate. Garrote is probably the most efficient opener to use, specially if you consider that raid debuffs are still being applied when you open (e.g the boss won't have five applications of Sunder); however, if you Garrote -> SnD immediately, without a Ruthlessness proc you might end up having to Envenom with 3 CPs.

 

Brgid

Apologies in advance if this has been answered already (I don't usually frequent the rogue forums) but I have a friend who has a (relatively recently) 80 rogue. He's now picked up a bit of Heroic and crafted gear though still carrying some quest reward / nonHeroic blues, using Greed MH and a slow OH sword, Combat spec (can't remember if he's Sword or Close Quarters spec off the top of my head.)

He's pulling only around 1000dps which seems pretty awful to me, I asked him about rotation and he says he's keeping SnD up and Rupturing (at least on bosses.) From Recount he uses FoK a lot on trash.

Basically I wanted to know what advice I could give him ... I think he wants to stay Combat (and he tells me he's saving badges for Pride OH), is there a thread I could link him to to give him some guidance?

 

hawtdawg

This is hopefully not a repeat question.

Hailstorm is considered best combat OH according to spreadsheet. However, with FoK being usable on a few boss fights now, wouldn't this make webbed death the ideal OH due to the 150% bonus that daggers get on FoK?

 

Tinwhisker

First off, [Pride] is an awful offhand for combat; do not let him spend badges on that, it's not for rogues. If he's keeping SnD up and using Rupture but still doing 1K DPS he's making some fundamental errors somewhere. Point him to the http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/ so he can pick up on some of the basics.

You're on the right track that [Webbed Death] is better, but slower daggers like double [Sinister Revenge] makes for best FoK spam. As far as daggers go, [Webbed Death] is a poor FoK trash spam choice if you have access to 25man daggers. Since you're talking boss fights though, do not optimize for FoK. Use what gives you the best DPS for single targets and let FoK do whatever it wants.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Miyomoto

So when i was re-speccing for raid tonight i was wondering weather to choose master poisoner or turn the tables

But from what i gather Turn the tables only applies to moves that add combo points not consume them.

Does fan of knives count a combo move? Even though it doesnt generate combo moves if any of you have the 4 piece tier 7/.5 bonus you will see that FoK costs 47 energy with the set bonus... Is this just a bug?

 

Spookydookie

I had questions about this choice before too, and the best I've gathered is that, if no one else is filling that +3% crit (Heart of the crusader, Totem of wrath), then in most cases it will benefit the overall dps of the raid more if you take Master Poisoner.
If you're spec-ing on a per-raid basis then this should be an easy choice considering that you will know who's coming, but for a less predetermined group makeup I usually stick with Turn the Tables.
It's often less of a choice for pallys and shamans, and they are therefore probably going to have the respective talents to fill that debuff.

As for the second part of your question, I'm not entirely certain but about 90% sure that FoK would not benefit, BUT I didn't know that the set bonus was causing that. So some testing would definitely have to be done.

 

decidence

I'm using this macro for Tricks of the Trade

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cast [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade

Is there a way to whisper the correct person I put the buff on? Since it's dependent on friendly target is found in priority of target, focus, and target of target I don't know how to grab the person's name that I actually used it on.

 

Venomous

Quick question concerning rotations, and my current DPS. My gear is as listed below:

The Glyphs are: Sinister Strike, Rupture, and SnD
Cycle: 4s/5r
Spec: 7/51/13 Combat, 5/5 Sword Spec
Professions: Alch/Herb
Race: Undead Male
Poisons: MH Wound, OH Deadly.

Mainhand: [Kel'Thuzad's Reach] - Mongoose
Offhand: [Widow's Fury] - Mongoose
Ranged: [Nerubian Conquerer]
Headpiece: [Heroes' Bonescythe Helmet], [Arcanum of Torment], [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond], [Balanced Twilight Opal]
Neck: [Collar of Dissolution]
Shoulders: [Heroes' Bonescythe Pauldrons], [Lesser Inscription of the Axe], [Pristine Monarch Topaz]
Cloak: [Aged Winter Cloak]. Major Agility (+22 AGI)
Chest: [Heroes' Bonescythe Breastplate], [Pristine Monarch Topaz], [Balanced Twilight Opal], Powerful Stats (+10 Stats)
Wrist: [Dragonfriend Bracers], Greater Assault, +50 AP.
Hand: [Heroes' Bonescythe Gauntlets], [Pristine Monarch Topaz], Crusher (+44 AP)
Waist: [Jorach's Crocolisk Skin Belt], [Balanced Twilight Opal], Belt Buckle: [Rigid Autumn's Glow]
Leg: [Heroes' Bonescythe Legplates], [Balanced Twilight Opal], [Pristine Monarch Topaz], +75AP +22 Crit Leg Enchant
Feet: [Dawnwalkers], Icewalker enchant
Ring1: [Strong-Handed Ring]
Ring2: [Ring of Invincibility]
Trinket1: [Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood]
Trinket2: [Mirror of Truth]

Hit: 287
AP: 3373
Crit: 35.96%
Exp: 23

Current rotation: SS to 4 Combo, SnD, Pop [Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood] + Bladefurry, Pop Killing Spree, Once ended I pop Aren. Rush, SS to 5 Combo, Rupture, SS to 4 Combo, SnD and rinse and repeat (Using Cooldowns as per above when up).

Apart from the obvious upgrades (Grasp/Hailstorm etc) am I doing anything wrong that you can point out - myself and another Mut rogue are getting OWNED by Warriors/Casters and apart from the obvious poor scaling we are affected by each patch - I can't think what I can improve..

 

Squirl

Just threw this together:

#showtooltip
/cast [button: 2] Tricks of the Trade
/stopmacro [button: 2]
/cast [target=targettarget] Tricks of the Trade
/script SendChatMessage("All my aggro are belong to you!","WHISPER",nil,UnitName("targettarget"));

Not sure if it actually WORKS yet, but it passed my limited testing in Dalaran.

Basically, you can right-click to cast it normally, but if you activate the macro through any other means, it will cast ToT on your target's target (hopefully that's your tank) and send them the tell.

You could also keep your macro and simply tack "/script SendChatMessage("All my aggro are belong to you!","WHISPER",nil,UnitName("targettarget"));" on the end, I think... derno what's going on in your macro, actually. (are you sure yours works? :x)

 

decidence

Can you explain how that works please? I don't see how that casts in the priority manner that I had setup already.

 

Squirl

Oh, now I see what yours does... to keep it the way you want, it will almost certainly go over the character limit because you'll have to throw in a bunch of /stopmacro statements. As far as I know, there is no way to tell which unit you cast or last cast on. You could work around the character limit by chaining /click statements, but that's not something I want to type out for you. Try this link if you really want to go that route: Click Chaining

Also, there could always be another creative alternative that I'm just not thinking of. I'll mull it over, but if you wait til a few more people look at it, someone may come up with something.

 

decidence

Yes mine works, its actually exemplified on wowwiki's advanced macro section.

1. Checks target, if friendly casts ToT, else step 2
2. Checks focus, if friendly casts ToT, else step 3
3. Checks target of target, if friendly casts ToT, else do nothing

Was hoping there was a way to store the target my macro chooses in a variable and then use that along with the /script Chat message to get it working but I don't know enough about it.

 

Squirl

Yea, like I said, they really don't give us the tools to do that as far as I know. Sorry :\

 

decidence

Seems like some people are trying to do something here but I can't seem to customize it to my own macro and get it to work.

 

Squirl

#showtooltip
/cast [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
/run local n,r=UnitName("target") if r then n=n.."-"..r end SendChatMessage("All my aggro are belong to you!","WHISPER",nil,n)

might work... I'm pretty new to LUA. :[

 

decidence

That works to send a whisper to the current target but it doesn't work if I don't have a target and just have a focus. The ability will get used on my focus but no whisper will be sent.

 

Squirl

#showtooltip
/cast [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
/run local n,r=UnitName("target","focus","targettarget") if r then n=n.."-"..r end SendChatMessage("All my aggro are belong to you!","WHISPER",nil,n)

Maybe? If that doesn't work, you'll have to get someone who really knows this stuff. I'm stumbling around in the dark, tbh.

Best of luck to you, but I need some sleep now.

 

nordveien

I got a question bothering me. Sorry in advance if it was discussed earlier and I missed it.

I have Combat spec, classic 15/51/5. So I have Blood Spatter, but don't have Improved Eviscerate.
Also I use glyphs of: Sinister Strike, SnD, Rupture.

So it's time to fight trash. I start with Garrote or Cheap Shot, then put on SnD, then built combo points up to 5. By that time my particular target usually has about half of its health or less. If I've used FoK earlier - then it took me even longer to built all 5 combo points and target's health is even lower. So it doesn't make sence to use Rupture, I just Eviscerate.
If it was a fight against group of trash, I move to the next target and manage to put on only 1, 2 or 3 combo points, then it dies (sometimes I have time to Eviscerate at 1 or 2 poins, and sometimes I miss even that). Anyway, it appears that Eviscerate is my main finisher after SnD, given that trash takes much more time and hp to fight against than bosses.

In that way it all seems a little imbalanced: having talent points and glyph put into Rupture, but having no choice but using Evi instead. Am I missing something?

I think I got to add that I haven't been to all the Northrend instances yet, only to simplest ones like Nexus, VH, UK/UP, CoS. So, maybe it's just specifics of mobs in these dungeons that they don't last too long? And Rupture will be justified in a long perspective?

 

RTM

Rupture doesn't tend to get used a lot in 5-mans, especially on trash. The glyph is more for longer single-target fights, which do apply in 5-mans but usually only to boss fights. If you do not raid then you would probably be better served with the Evisc glyph. You can always reglyph if/when you do start raiding.

Kind of curious as to why you're Sinister Striking with daggers.

 

nordveien

I guess 'cause I'm torn and confused

As you have already sensed, I'm fairly new to learning the insides of rogue mechanics. I dinged 80 and went searching for answers on how to improve my spec and gear. And took some of the advices without realizing they are applicable for rading only. Now I see that I need to respec to fit my current needs, such as 5-mans and questing, and leave the raiding spec for future. Thank you for helping open my eyes a bit more

As for Sinister Strike, I got that it will be the only valid combo builder for Combat spec with Fist Weapon MH/Dagger OH (which is not my case yet). And now... I feel like I can't afford always getting to a position behind the target to use Backstab - more often you need just strike as quickly as possible. And besides that, Backstab costs more energy, so I figured it's not viable in long term... Well, maybe I'm wrong about that too.

 

RTM

Check out this thread, it gives some good advice in the first post about rogue basics. Aimed at raiding but there are some good guidelines for all rogues in there. As you surmised, Backstab isn't the greatest skill these days for a variety of reasons but using Sinister Strike with a mainhand dagger is also pretty bad. I'm not sure if it's listed in the above link the exact reason why daggers & Sinister Strike don't get along, but weapon speed, damage range, and the AP coefficient applied to daggers combine in a perfect storm of Suck.

Grab yourself a nice (mainhand; i.e. not [Pride]) fist weapon and you'll be all set.

 

Visciv

With Ulduar being on the far horizon, I'm trying to make sure I'm set in every way possible for it. Now obviously this question is with NO expected changes in mind.

Q: Does Combat surpass Mutilate once you have aquired Calamity/Webbed Death? My use of Vulajin's spreadsheet with my current gear indicates no, but there is data on the *shudder* wow forums which indicates that combat is acquiring higher top end damage on many fights. Is this due to more players opting towards combat? Better players opting towards combat because of its ease during complicated fights? Or is Calamities Grasp actually pushing combat over the top and I'm just itemized too heavily for Mutilate?

Thanks in advance.

 

• Neto-

If the "data" you speak of is WWS reports, these most likely inflate Combat DPS through AOE with Blade Flurry or extremely short fight durations and thus increased cooldown uptime. Trusting the spreadsheet is probably your best bet in this case.

 

IVIemnarch

2 questions. I am trying to figure out what the sweet spot is for hit rating currently, and I am wondering what stat to stack after I hit that sweet spot, I can get 624 hit rating I am sitting at 581. Here is my armory, and I am not changing to mutilate so dont bother saying it.

The World of Warcraft Armory