Ashere

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk/ is a long but good place to start reading.
There is no such thing as a must-have amount of +hit, but generally, Combat rogues stop gemming for hit between the specials and the poison cap, and gem for AP or Agi instead, which bring more DPS on the table than +hit does.

 

guizas

Hey there, great community here, long time reader first time poster
I just have a quick doubt and i was wondering if someone could help me. At the moment i have got [Librarian's Paper Cutter] as my off hand and im Combat specced and i have got [Crystal-Infused Tunic] as my chest, and i dont know if i should go get [Heroes' Bonescythe Breastplate] or [Grasscutter] with my badges first. So with the Tunic i have got 369 Hit Rating, if i loose it to the T7 ill have 318 hit rating, and i do have the T7 gloves so i would gain the Bonus to rupture if i would get the T7 chest.
About poisons Elitist says i should be using wound/wound but the spreadsheet says Deadly/wound.
Thanks for the help.

 

Squirl

You say you have a spreadsheet... use it. Take the DPS increase and divide it by badge cost of the items, then take the one with the highest ratio. Also, if you don't have [Mirror of Truth] yet, get that.

 

joesausage

Is there a clear cut opinion of the 4-piece set bonus?

Currently I have the 2-piece via chest and hands. I just picked up [Leggings of Discord] because the spreadsheet said they were a substantial DPS increase over [Gored Hide Legguards], and I needed the expertise. I also picked up [Helm of the Vast Legions] to replace my [Weakness Spectralizers]. So, the only relevant slot I have yet to upgrade is shoulders, which are currently [Trollwoven Spaulders]. It seems like [Heroes' Bonescythe Pauldrons] would be a downgrade in-and-of-themselves, and they won't get me my 4-piece set bonus alone.

So really my question is, based on the gear that I have, would it be worth replacing one of my recent Naxxramas upgrades to get my 4-piece set bonus? Is it really that good? Or should I just go for [Spaulders of Resumed Battle]?

 

Palidus41

It has been found that the 4 piece bonus is worthwhile, but I can't really tell you whether or not swapping those items around will increase your DPS or not. You mentioned using the spreadsheet, I'd recommend that you just plug it in and play around with it, and trust what number comes up as being the best. A generalized answer is rather difficult to give, because changes in your gear will change the relative value of everything else.

 

naknekm

I am combat, with Fist/dagger. I do have 2 webbed death's and wonder if I should set up a weapon macro and switch to FOK during those times when I am in a huge group and am spamming FOK.

It gives 150% damage with daggers and it seems like switching to a dagger might increase trash damage.

But, I wonder if there are other things that would mitigate the damage, such as the fact that I am combat and using a dagger in MH or for that matter anything else that might weigh against doing this.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, if so, does anyone have a macro which would do this and then switch back when I push it the second time?

Thank you in advance.

 

Scound

I strongly advise you to read the "Pocket Guide".

If you do have 2 Webbed Deaths play Mutilate! It is the ultimate Combo for the spec.

If you insist on playing combat, use the slowest Weapon you can find (preferably 2.5+) in your Mainhand - and the fastest in your Offhand. NEVER EVER use a Dagger in your Mainhand!

For FoK it is advisable to use the slowest Weapons available to you in both hands (i.e 1.8 speed Daggers; 2.5 speed Fists - at these speeds the Damage of Daggers and Fists is litterally identical using FoK).
Conclusion: If you want to swap a Weapon, make it your fast Offhand and swap a slow one in!

 

naknekm

I do insist on playing combat.

Here is what I am trying to figure out:

I have Calamity/WD equipped.

In FOK, daggers do 150% of damage. So, I am wondering if, given the fact that I am combat spec, it would make sense to go to WD/WD in those situations where I am going to spam FOK?

My question is whether there is something in the combat spec that will reduce the amount of damage I do with FOK?

I have outfitter addon and I can switch with the press of a button.

I guess what I am really asking is: will I do more damage on trash pulls like down Spider Wing if I switch to WD/WD for the time I am spamming FOK than if I just stay CG/WD?

Thanks in advance.

 

Leto

Use CG/WD. CG hits over 150% harder than WD, so the buff to dagger dmg doesn't make up the difference.

What you should do if possible though is put a 1.8 dagger in the off hand instead of WD.

Rogue at heart.

 

Verre

I read one post about FoK with two daggers and just shook my head. But a second one and I have to jump in.

Webbed Death even with a 150% damage increase is like FoK with a 2.1 second 213 ilevel sword. Its not all that great. CG is by far the best MH for FoK spam for a combat rogue, and is only rivaled by a Sinisters Revenge (which in reality does give a minor increase in damage over Calamitys).

Simple math says that Webbed Death is the worst dagger for FoK spam. In fact its close to being the worst 213 ilvl weapon commonly used by a rogue other than Hailstorm and other offhand swords (I'll include Librarians since many newer rogues still use it).

In the end though, pulling out your calculator and doing grade 4 math would have got you these simple answers. At least you put them in the right thread.

 

Raogrim

I have what I feel is a low amount of Expertise: 9. Should I just wait for gear upgrades that have expertise on them, or attempt to increase this stat through gems? The spreadsheets are not showing a dps increase with a different gem configuration that adds expertise gems. I have been going by the spreadsheets so far, but with this, I would like a little advice.

 

Tinwhisker

Expertise is a good stat but may or may not provide a DPS increase if you swap some AP/Agi gems for Exp gems. At your gear level I imagine it's probably close to break even for DPS but higher Expertise will give you smoother cycles; dodged finishers are killers if you run a very tight cycle.

Assuming the spreadsheets give near equal rating to Exp vs Agi vs AP, it's going to come down to your playstyle more than anything else.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Verre

I was in the same boat when I switched from Combat to Mutilate. I had exactly 9 expertise at the time and the spreadsheet told me gemming for exp was a dps loss.

What i would try doing is changing your food buff from AP/Agi to Expertise, that is what I did, and although it gave me no dps boost it did not give me a dps loss. I tried it out in and it seemed to stabilize my rotations enough to envenom with 2 seconds left on SnD safely. If something went wrong at least i had a GCD to get another Envenom in.

 

icjaker

If I am a mutilate rogue with mostly 25 man gear with the exception of the expertise bracers - should I be capping my expertise with gems FIRST - then gemming AP? And what is the expertise cap - 26?

You can armory me (although I'm BG spec'd atm you can still see most of my gear that I wear)

Thank you in advance!

 

Verre

Check the Spreadsheet with your own gear plugged in. As a general rule if it is not a dps loss on the spreadsheet to gem expertise over AP/Agi then do it for rotation stability. If it is a dps loss check other options, such as expertise food. If both are a dps loss and your already close to the expertise cap I wouldn't switch gems, you will most likely be sacrificing dps.

If you use the spreadsheet for all your gear choices your less likely to have to ask questions about your gear combo at later dates.

 

Palidus41

These sorts of questions really are best answered by a spreadsheet, since it will give you answers for your specific gear set. As a general rule though, gemming for expertise, agility or AP tends to be very close. Gemming for expertise may cost you a few DPS, but it will also stabilize your cycle. Best advice is to downloaded the spreadsheet, plug in all your gear, and see what the difference is. Then decide if whatever DPS gain you might get by gemming Agi/AP is worth the potential instability of having low expertise. It is highly unlikely that you'll ever really notice the minor difference, given that RNG can fluctuate in either direction by a significant margin.

Edit: Too slow, Verre beat me to it.

 

decidence

Damn, still doesn't work.

 

Rilias

When acting as the only source of poisons on the target, how much would a mutilate rogue benefit from the fact that deadly poison on mainhand can proc from envenom after the stack is consumed?
I ask because the cost of weaponswapping is down to ~40 DPS (Vul-sheet) for me and I find that I pool energy in such a way that I must mutilate immidiatly after my envenoms with no time to wait for DP-procs. This coupled with annoying dry spells in Deadly procs leads me to hope that the DPS-loss would be so marginal that going the suboptimal way might be excused.

 

Krollin

I have seen a few questions and answers regarding which weapons should be used when FoKing (I must apologise for the ambiguous language here too).

The only criteria to determine which weapons are the best is

- Average weapon damage taking the 50% damage bonus for daggers into account.

Nothing else, except: Daggers or Fists are best if you are CQC specced and only then when considering Swords/Maces with the same average damage.

Fan of Knives damage is not normalised, weapon speed does not play a role in how much damage is done and the attack is instant.

Slow weapons are no better than fast weapons for those reasons and vice versa.

[Twilight Mist] [adjusted avg. dmg 423] is better than [Webbed Death] [adjusted avg. dmg 328.5], [Calamity's Grasp] [avg. dmg 445.5] yet better and best of all is [Sinister Revenge] [adjusted avg. dmg 462] is the best (of all the commonly used weapons).

[Omen of Ruin] [adjusted avg. dmg 322.5] is actually very close to Webbed Death but not better even though it is slower.

It can be argued that slower weapons are generally better but that is not the whole truth, only average weapon dmg reveals that.

 

OninEU

Hi,

How does dodge work on mutilate:
Is it a one roll for dodge for each hand, or one for both ?
If it one for each hand, and one hand is dodged and the other crits, will I then get 3 CP ?

Auto attack:
If I start to attack with a mutilate, will auto attack start at the same time with both hands (4 attacks at once) ?
If not, are the auto attack moved to next (or another) time slot ?

I'm not native English speaker (or writer), so sorry for eventually spelling/grammar errors.

 

drumbum

You are correct to say that Fan of Knives is not normalized, but your conclusions from this are very wrong. Because Fan of Knives is unnormalized, weapon speed has significant effect on the damage dealt by the ability. Weapon speed dictates how much damage is added by attack power.

In fact, the opposite of your conclusions is true. The average damage range is almost entirely overshadowed by the weapon speed. The value that you must maximize is the sum of the average damage range and your attack power multiplied by the weapon speed (further multiplied by 1.5 if a dagger).

 

Pepperry

Can FoK proc Sword Specialization?

 

Tinwhisker

I believe this was asked before and answered but I can neither find it or remember for sure. But we do know they disabled it proc'ing Focused Attacks (the offhand part) and Combat Potency (an offhand proc) so I would imagine that it cannot proc Sword Spec (also an offhand proc).

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Rhysel

What is the effect of Hit rating in PVP? I'd read that it may have been changed to diminish Resilience but I can't recall if that's accurate. Also, Is the suggested Expertise rating different for PVP considering a Mutilate spec and a constant level 80 opponent, or is it still best to just hit the cap and stay there?

 

Pepperry

Sword Specialization is not strictly an offhand proc though is it? I am using swords in both MH and OH due to lack of other weapon drops and if Sword Spec only procs off the OH then I am in trouble. My original question only came to mind because of the thought about Close Quarters Combat buffing FoK so I wondered if Sword Spec got a similar effect. I prefer swords from an aesthetics point of view and my luck at drops has kept me there but if swords are even worse than I thought I will be more aggressive in my push to get a Webbed Death and a Calamity.