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Old 02/20/09, 6:18 PM   #1876
ShadowEric
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Terenas
Yes it's linear.

For melee hit, it's 32.79 hit rating per percent.
The Precision talent gives you 5%. The Specials cap is 8%. Therefore you need an extra 3% from hit rating to cap specials. 32.79 * 3 = 98.37, which means you need 99 hit rating to cap specials, as the table above shows.

For spell hit, it's 26.232 hit rating per percent.
17% is the spell hit cap, which is used for our poisons. Precision applies there as well. So we need an extra 12% from hit rating. 26.232 * 12 = 314.784, which means you need 315 hit rating to cap poisons, as the able above shows.

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Old 02/20/09, 6:36 PM   #1877
Joigahdenn
Piston Honda
 
Joigahdenn's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Cenarius
So, to verify that I do in fact understand what is going on with hit since I seem to be on the rather slow side:

With a draenai in my group, but no spriest or boomkin, and taking the values you posted 314.784 - 26.232 = 288.552. So to meet the poison hit cap under these assumptions I need 289 hit.

Edit: Question answered.

Last edited by Joigahdenn : 02/20/09 at 6:45 PM.

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Old 02/20/09, 11:11 PM   #1878
Kahska
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Illidan (EU)
About mutilate rotation

Hi,

I usually do a rotation like 3s/5r/5e and never do rupture or envenom with less than 5 cp and I'm wondering if it is bad because I see on this forum it should be 4+ CP.

So is it better to do envenom/rupture with 4 CP than another mutilate to get 5 CP ?

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Old 02/21/09, 4:23 AM   #1879
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Kahska View Post
Hi,

I usually do a rotation like 3s/5r/5e and never do rupture or envenom with less than 5 cp and I'm wondering if it is bad because I see on this forum it should be 4+ CP.

So is it better to do envenom/rupture with 4 CP than another mutilate to get 5 CP ?
Yes 4 or more. And no more SnD after the first one, which can be at any combo point you start with. And it's not so much a rotation but priorities. Envenom whenever SnD is low or Rupture is still up.

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Old 02/21/09, 12:07 PM   #1880
Mech0z
Von Kaiser
 
Mech0z's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Might be a stupid question, but I have almost only hc gear and is now trying to play some pve. I would like to just play the spec with the most dps in it for boss' is this mutilate which I am now or combat?
Mutilate is more entertaining as it requires some thinking, but if combat is better dps then thats what I am going as its also better for trash (quick fights)

Last edited by Mech0z : 02/21/09 at 12:32 PM.

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Old 02/21/09, 1:51 PM   #1881
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
Tinwhisker's Avatar
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post
Might be a stupid question, but I have almost only hc gear and is now trying to play some pve. I would like to just play the spec with the most dps in it for boss' is this mutilate which I am now or combat?
Mutilate is more entertaining as it requires some thinking, but if combat is better dps then thats what I am going as its also better for trash (quick fights)
Download the spreadsheet, put in your gear for each spec, make sure you set Sinister Strike or Mutilate as your finisher (as appropriate), make sure you set Eviscerate or Envenom as your finisher (as appropriate), set your rotations correctly and see for yourself.


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Old 02/21/09, 2:30 PM   #1882
Mech0z
Von Kaiser
 
Mech0z's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Hmm according to that I will go from 4100 to 3200 if I go combat :/ And here I thought combat was supperior.

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Old 02/21/09, 3:42 PM   #1883
Gorgrom
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
I am wondering if anyone any tips for a mod to help me keep up with my mutilate rotations for my alt rogue. What are you mutilate rogues out there using?

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Old 02/21/09, 3:47 PM   #1884
rekumbra
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Shadowsong (EU)
offhand weapon enchants

When I plug a proc'ing weapon enchant (mongoose or berserking) into the spreadsheet, I get lower dps increase for an offhand enchants than with the same enchant on mainhand. Enchants like accuracy and agility give the same increase on both hands. This means the spreadshet gives me the highest dps numbers with berserking MH, accuracy OH.

I've searched but found no mention of different effects of enchants on OH. Can anyone explain?

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Old 02/21/09, 3:55 PM   #1885
songster
Chief Passenger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Sinister Strike and finishers have a chance to proc MH poisons / enchants etc. That means a given weapon will proc more often as a MH weapon than an OH weapon.

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Old 02/21/09, 4:06 PM   #1886
Neto-
Bald Bull
 
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wut
Gnome Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by rekumbra View Post
When I plug a proc'ing weapon enchant (mongoose or berserking) into the spreadsheet, I get lower dps increase for an offhand enchants than with the same enchant on mainhand. Enchants like accuracy and agility give the same increase on both hands. This means the spreadshet gives me the highest dps numbers with berserking MH, accuracy OH.

I've searched but found no mention of different effects of enchants on OH. Can anyone explain?
That's because of how PPM works - you have a X% chance to proc the enchant on every swing based on your weapon speed (Weapon Speed * PPM / 60); since your mainhand should be slower (and, thus, higher chance per swing to proc the enchant) using instant-attacks such as Sinister Strike or Eviscerate will have that same X% chance to proc, whereas the faster weapon will have a lower chance per swing to proc the enchant - not to mention that the offhand will only have auto-attack swings, hence a significantly lower uptime of the enchant. So, it is possible that you get more swings with your 1.5 OH, but every swing (specials included) with a 2.6 MH will have a higher chance to proc the enchant.

Last edited by Neto- : 02/21/09 at 5:23 PM.

Originally Posted by Aldriana
But while Vulajin is only a pale shadow of my brilliance, he still contributes a fair amount to the community so I'd feel guilty

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Old 02/21/09, 5:50 PM   #1887
Rhysel
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Ravencrest
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post
Hmm according to that I will go from 4100 to 3200 if I go combat :/ And here I thought combat was supperior.
Neither of the specs stands as superior (considering upcoming changes at this time). Let your drops determine your spec if you want the highest DPS. If you have two great daggers drop, go mutilate. If you get a great fist, go combat. Changing your spec isn't an easy button to fix other problems.

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Old 02/21/09, 9:46 PM   #1888
zetto
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Outland (EU)
I'm thinking about going Dual Ip next naxx, So i wonder if wound poison would work as an increase for the mutilate damage(the reduce healing dot)

or does it have to be deadly poison or the hunter poison thingy?

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Old 02/21/09, 10:01 PM   #1889
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by zetto View Post
I'm thinking about going Dual Ip next naxx, So i wonder if wound poison would work as an increase for the mutilate damage(the reduce healing dot)

or does it have to be deadly poison or the hunter poison thingy?
Yes. Any poison.

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Old 02/21/09, 10:08 PM   #1890
donkeyface
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Tichondrius
I need help putting a group together for 10 man 3D Sarth. My guild did it already but with a caster group. Anybody help out with a group makeup and specs?

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Old 02/22/09, 2:18 AM   #1891
metroidman
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I just have a question. I had Sinister Revenge drop from Kel and I won the roll on it. I have Webbed Death already

I'm wondering if I should do WD MH and Sinister Revenge OH or vice versa

Also what poisons on each hand? I'm new to Mutil after being Combat for so long so I'm trying to get a sense.

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Old 02/22/09, 2:39 AM   #1892
Iscis
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Azgalor
Originally Posted by metroidman View Post
I just have a question. I had Sinister Revenge drop from Kel and I won the roll on it. I have Webbed Death already

I'm wondering if I should do WD MH and Sinister Revenge OH or vice versa

Also what poisons on each hand? I'm new to Mutil after being Combat for so long so I'm trying to get a sense.
This has been discussed quite a bit. It seems the general concensus is WD MH and SR OH. Of course, WD/WD aeems to be the best right now for Mutilate. IP MH, DP OH.

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Old 02/22/09, 9:53 AM   #1893
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Iscis View Post
This has been discussed quite a bit. It seems the general concensus is WD MH and SR OH. Of course, WD/WD aeems to be the best right now for Mutilate. IP MH, DP OH.
With 3.0.9, WD/WD with IP/IP+Eviscerate seems to be superior to Envenom.

For that matter WD/LPC Eviscerate seems superior to WD/SR Envenom.

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Gods glory to the Heroes.

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Old 02/22/09, 12:13 PM   #1894
Rhysel
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Ravencrest
Originally Posted by Grunge View Post
With 3.0.9, WD/WD with IP/IP+Eviscerate seems to be superior to Envenom.

For that matter WD/LPC Eviscerate seems superior to WD/SR Envenom.


Really? That's very interesting, what was the reasoning behind the change? Is it now considered beneficial to glyph out of Garrote and into Eviscerate? Has the optimal mutilate spec changed any to include Improved Eviscerate?

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Old 02/22/09, 1:12 PM   #1895
zetto
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Grunge View Post
With 3.0.9, WD/WD with IP/IP+Eviscerate seems to be superior to Envenom.

For that matter WD/LPC Eviscerate seems superior to WD/SR Envenom.
Cant get hand on any spreadsheet at the moment, But if running IP/IP With WD/SR

How much increase in dps could I expect? I know it depends on gear etc.. but is there any numbers with the optimal gear etc?

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Old 02/22/09, 1:53 PM   #1896
Varg
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by Mech0z View Post
Hmm according to that I will go from 4100 to 3200 if I go combat :/ And here I thought combat was supperior.
You need to change the default rotation in the spreadsheet, since you can't really model combat with a 5r/5e without losing a substantial amount of dps.

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Old 02/22/09, 5:32 PM   #1897
Etc
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Deathwing
I was rearranging my abilities after switching over to HaT and wanted to consolidate my haste abilities into one macro using a castsequence macro.
My current macro is
/castsequence [reset=3/target] Valorous Bonescythe Gauntlets,Blade Flurry,Potion of Speed
My question is obviously not with the creation of a macro but with the haste benefits gained and the time they are available. As an engineer, the Use ability on my gloves gives 340 haste for 10 seconds, Blade Flurry gives 20% to attack speed for 15 seconds, and Potion of Speed gives 500 haste for 15 seconds. I was wondering if I lose any DPS by using the gloves 10 second ability first and effectively lose 2 seconds from GCD from popping the other two abilities.

In short, is there a best rotation for using all three of these abilities at once? I understand if there is that the increase would be minimal but an increase is an increase.

I searched for a solution to this on EJ and Google but came up empty and my napkin math usually falls short.

Thanks in advance.

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Old 02/22/09, 7:30 PM   #1898
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Short answer: yes, you lose DPS by doing the glove enchant first.

Long answer: to maximize DPS, you want to maximize the overlap between the haste rating effects and Blade Flurry; thus, you want to pop BF and the haste potion on consecutive GCDs, and the shorter haste cooldown within 5 seconds after starting BF.

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Old 02/22/09, 7:47 PM   #1899
Etc
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Deathwing
Thank you very much, Aldriana. I had a feeling that was the case. Guess I'll have to break the macro up into two things. Thanks again.

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Old 02/22/09, 9:44 PM   #1900
Valustria
Banned
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Etc View Post
Thank you very much, Aldriana. I had a feeling that was the case. Guess I'll have to break the macro up into two things. Thanks again.
Or you could just do it this way:

/cast [btn:2] Valorous Bonescythe Gauntlets
/castsequence [btn:1][reset=5/target] Blade Flurry, Potion of Speed, Valorous Bonescythe Gauntlets
If you right click on the button, it will only use the glove enchant. If you left click on it, or hit the hotkey button, it will function as a castsequence with the glove enchant at the end, effectively using it within 5 seconds of the Blade Flurry. So, spam it to use the macro, or selectively right-click it to use only your glove enchant.

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