Im not saying it wouldnt work im saying that using a Mh sword and only even getting half of the procs when the mh swords damage is equivalant to that of a fist will lead the sword to be on top in most cases. Simply do to extra damage procs, and more energy regen. Im not saying anything atm will be more powerfull you can spread sheet all you like nothing is positive till you can prove it by doing it on the game. I myself will be trying a Mh sword oh dagger combo though. If i get lucky enough to grab a good Mh quality fist ill try that spec out 2 and see if either vastly outshines the other

Again this is all neglitive considering im almsost positive that with the way gear is stacking haste and crit that Mut daggers will outshine all combat builds on single target dps for a long time to come atm.

Also sadly Mongoose is still the best weapon enchant atm still giving more base ap over any other enchants along with speed inc and crit, so hopefully we get to see a new shiny enchant for our weapons but if not oww well.

Hallagenic I think your reasoning is a little incorrect. There doesn’t seem to be a huge dps gap between different combat setups, so testing in game may be ultimately futile. Investing time and research in spreadsheets would probably be a bit more effective in the long run. That said, with the weapons available in the game at the moment my money is that fist + dagger would be the top setup.

As for your mutilate statement based on gear itemization, I really don’t understand how you came to that conclusion. Based on EP estimates haste is worth the same for the two specs, and crit is only slightly more beneficial to mutilate. I think some other people have made a good assessment on the situation: on murderable mobs mutilate will probably come out on top, but on nonmurderable mobs combat may depending on fight mechanics (adds, no adds, etc).

As for the best weapon enchant, I was under the impression berserking was the most optimal.

I'm sorry Hallagenic, but you greatly over estimate the effectiveness of Sword Spec. Dual Sword and Dual Fist specs are basically comparable. In TBC the gap already wasn't as big as some people assumed it to be, in WotLK the gap is basically gone altogether, with possible even a slight edge to the fist version (thank Prey on the Weak for that one).
Whether the offhand is a dagger or a fist of equal DPS, stats and speed doesn't matter for a CQC non-sword Combat build. Fist MH with a sword OH is supposedly the best option. Provided you can find the appropriate equal-stat weapons for it to actually make such a choice.
The reason for this is that your extra attacks generated by your OH will be Fist attacks from your MH, which have a 5% higher chance to crit.
On top of that, for those with points to spare in Lethality: an MH fist will have a 5% bigger chance of making Lethality actually useful than a MH sword has.

So basically: don't go for a CQC + Sword Spec combination, if the sword isn't going into your offhand and the fist isn't going in your main hand.

I'm playing a mutilate sub hybrid and was just wondering if we have had any testing of stacking serrated blades and blood splatter. From the look of things I should be seeing a 60% rupture damage increase. I haven't done any testing and personally would prefer not to, so was just curious if anyone had seen that it was in fact a full 60% damage increase to this finisher or not.

I have done some browsing on here and some of the other threads - and maybe I have missed it - but I can not seem to find any info on what glyphs to use as Mutilate. I am assuming the Rupture glyph would be one of those.

Also, what is the common opener for Mutilate? Is it Garrote? or Ambush? Or something else entirely?

Hello, I have a question involving combat potency, and choice of offhands. I currently have access to a [Hatestrike] and a [Librarian's Paper Cutter]. MH is currently [Kel'Thuzad's Reach]. I've searched around but haven't found the answer I'm looking for regarding the choice of OH's I currently have. So, my question would be would the 1.3 speed boe dagger be a better offhand then the 1.6 speed sword. And also, is there a quick link to a chart that shows energy/minute in regards to hit rating and speed of an OH? I'm trying to figure out at which point in a weapons dps does speed make up for the lack of dps in another OH.

The SnD glyph isn't even necessarily a DPS upgrade, because envenoms are usually coming across in high enough frequency that the base 21s (or 31.5s if talented) are plenty of time to get another Envenom off before it falls off.

Right you are, I neglected the fact that the spreadsheet tells me it is an upgrade for my current gear because my calculated S&D uptime is less than 100%, so that's why it appears to be a dps increase. Apologies for the small amount of misinformation.

Ok these items may not exist yet and i have not seen them on atlas however looking on thottbot i came across two sword that fit the bill for combat sword spec rather well they are as follows Hailstorm - Thottbot: World of Warcraft wich should link you to an oh sword with 1.50 and 156.7 dps called Hailstorm, and a mh called Silent Crusader found here Silent Crusader - Thottbot: World of Warcraft. I can neither confirm or deny the existance or say where they drop or how to get them. But from the looks of it that may be a good optiion to look for.

1) I've been following the whole "timing Envenom to maximise damage from DP ticks" theories for a while now, and was looking to work on some modeling for the net gains/losses from such. However, besides my rusty math skills, I can't find a conclusive answer as to which order of operations you add Vile Poisons into the damage calculations.

[(PoisonBaseDamage)*1.2]+[(PoisonAPModifier)*AP)]

or

[(PoisonBaseDamage)+((PoisonAPModifier)*AP)]*1.2



For example, Rank VII Wound Poison:

(231*1.2)+(.04*AP)

or

(231+(.04*AP))*1.2


2) For both Rupture and DP, how long is a tick, in seconds? I used to think that ticks occurred every 2 seconds, but that could have just been because the old energy tick was every 2 seconds. Does haste affect tick timing at all?



The whole Envenom timing discussion reminds me of a diagram drawn up in the hunter forums for Steady Shot/Kill Command Rotations. I was going to try and do the math for the DPS gain/loss for combat envenom usage, but ran into the above roadblocks. Any light you can shed on this would be helpful.



@Hallogenic

The main problem running MH Sword/OH dagger and speccing for both CQC and Sword Spec is that you are not going to have a better result than putting those points into another couple talents that will provide more DPS. If you were not going to spec for both, then why not just go ahead and equip two of the same type of weapon that you specced for? There's also the fact that CQC benefits more from Prey on the Weak than Sword Spec will. Your speccing just does not have the synergy to be viable as other possible specs out there.

I would come down to saying this by using your envenom instead of eviscerate are you not in tern cripling your overall dps. I look it like this youll be using deadly poision wich is a dps over time or counts as a tick or similiar to any other dot. Bleeds work the same way, why remove 5 stacks when its a constant source of damage and have to rebuild it when on average i can hit just as hard with an evicerate without droping any of my dot time. I would say even for mutilate that using 5 combo points on rupture then 5 on eviscerate and having a rupture and poision dot up full time is more worth your money then using envenom. *maybe im wrong but that is what my experience has led me to see at least.

Could anyone please explain why slower daggers go in OH as opposed to MH in raid mutilate builds, and Deadly/Instant are on slow/fast instead of fast/slow. Is there a situation where a slow MH - fast OH would be better, thanks.

Since i could not find the info anywhere else, anyone know how the new darkmoon card: Greatness is obtainable? Where does the Ace drop? Is there a possible way to farm the different cards?

The cards are crafted with Inscription, which produces a random card. I don't think they drop from anywhere.

This has been answered several times in various threads, but I'll explain it anyway. The reason that instant poison goes on the faster weapon is because IP is more damage per proc than DP, and the faster weapon hits more often and therefore gets more poison procs. Then, that faster weapon is put mainhand because finishers count as mainhand hits for the purposes of poison procs, and, again, we want as many instant poison procs as we can get. It turns out that poisons are such a big part of our damage than these two considerations outweigh the higher damage mutilates that slow MH-fast OH would give.

Its all Inscription, requires a good bit of mats too, Also, each one produces a random card, so a bit of luck involved. You should also be able to find them on the AH and Inscriptors are crafting them to earn gold.

Well that is good to know about the card considering it along with what mirror of truth are about as good as we can get atm. That being said i think ill lock an order in with my guild inscriptionist and try to obtain one of these. Darkmoon Nobles Deck - Quest - World of Warcraft

I've looked around and can't seem to find how attack power works into these ep charts? Sorry about the seemingly simple question but I have looked and can't seem to find a mention of it which makes me think I am missing somthing huge. So if you had a +20agi stat to a + 25 or even +30 attack power which would be the more desierable of the two.

EP stands for equivalence points, and the reference is AP, which means attack power = 1 EP.

In the new threads, there is no mention at all about maces. I have a dwarf rogue alt, and I wonder how much behind Mutilate or Fist/Swords Combat would a Mace Combat build perform (5 expertise seems so nice). Are there accurate Armor values in existing spreadsheets to check Mace specialization effect ? As a healing priest, I am familiar to the Armor levels of our tanks, and the effect of +25% buff (around 12% damage reduction on tank, unnoticeable on low armor), much less to the effect of -15% talents on target.

My understanding is that the baseline is Attack Power ...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lyphe

I have been testing many builds this week once I hit 80 and I am somewhat impressed with a HaT build based mainly on Evis dmg. Has anyone else tried this build effectively yet in raids?

The build I have been testing is an 8/20/43 build.

Save your herb and eternal life right now if you want to make this card. Each card created takes a significant investment of rare pigment in addition to 3 eternal life each and the result is random. Meaning it can take a considerable amount of herbs and eternals to craft the card you want. I was lucky enough to make an ace of nobles on my first creation but subsequent attempts have been less lucky.

Hallagenic that sword, Silent Crusader, drops off 25 man naxx trash.